Review of Ivan's ECU Flash for the V star 1300 - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Review of Ivan's ECU Flash for the V star 1300

Hello all,

Just a little review on Ivan's ECU flash for the V-star 1300.

I am happy to say I went down and picked up the bike today. I had a nice long conversation with Ivan and we went over the things that where done to the Bike. the ride home was approximately 256 Miles. I have to say "wow" it's like having a different bike. The throttle response is crisp and very responsive. There is no more "lugging" when twisting the throttle during low speeds. The acceleration is very smooth through the entire power band. At higher speeds one simply needs to just crack the throttle a bit and the power is there. I no longer need to drop a gear to pass with "care". Just a twist and you are gone. There is no longer any popping during decel. I couldn't be happier with the overall performance and responsiveness of the star now.

My current setup is:

Cobra slip-on

Power commander

and Ivan's ECU flash

Hopefully soon I will pick up a Air intake (most likely a cobra Powerflo. really like the look of them)



The power commander already has the Maps loaded for an open air intake so i just have to switch over to it once I get one. (very nice feature of getting the power commander from Ivan' All the maps are already loaded for My setups and future additions.



I will be running the bike more over the week and will provide an update to the review after.

2014 V-Star 1300 Deluxe
Kuryakyn offset Floorboard highway pegs
Kuryakyn Flame ISO grips with Throttle Boss and Bar end Helmet Lock
Power Commander FMS
Cobra Slip-on Exhaust
Ivan's ECU Flash
Cee Baileys Smoke Tinted Windshield
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2016, 01:44 PM
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Thanks for the feedback cipher.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2016, 07:00 PM
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what did he do to the ECU?

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-29-2016, 04:23 PM
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Looks like things trailed off with this tread. Anymore update? I just installed the Ivan Flashed ECU in my wife's bike and I'm playing around with the Power Commander V trying to decide if I need it or not. Are you using the PCV at all right now or waiting on the intake?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo1981 View Post
what did he do to the ECU?
Bevo .. check out his page. It has the models he does the ECU flash on and each link to the model gives an
overview of the changes he makes

Ivan's Performance Products

I had it done to my Strat after I added the Freedom Performance Dual exhaust which was about 2 years ago now. Got rid of
the "pop" when shifting and on decel, plus made for smoother overall throttle response.

2014 Stratoliner Deluxe


A determined soul will do more with a rusty monkey wrench than a loafer will accomplish with all the tools in a machine shop. - Robert Hughes
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-01-2016, 02:39 AM
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i've been to his site once or twice. and it seems that only recently has he put up information that gives more details into what he does with the ECU than had been on his site for a long time. specifically, "Raise rev-limit in all gears to 6600 rpm." for this 1300 model. he also claims he fixes "fueling problems" on the various models. i'm curious what specific things are referred to as "problems". and since he fine tunes each person's ECU to their specific setup (air/exhaust mods), i was hoping Cipher could answer what was specifically, or even vaguely, done to his instead of just the usual after effects dialogue of 'it runs better'. i could go on and on about the new questions that are raised with the new info he's put up, but that road hasn't gone anywhere.

on a side note, he actually offered to give me further explanation of his service to specific questions i had, which i sent him, and then never heard from him again.

bonus points if anyone can explain the following from his site for the 950 model:

"3) Complete re-curve of ignition timing
a) Gets rid of part throttle timing retarder for more response and less vibration when cruising and moderate acceleration.
b) Gets rid of high rpm timing retarder allowing the engine to make maximum power for longer.
c) Set timing for maximium power and driveability across the entire rpm range & all throttle positions"

are all these just the effects from the single action of raising the rev limit of each gear?

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo1981 View Post
i've been to his site once or twice. and it seems that only recently has he put up information that gives more details into what he does with the ECU than had been on his site for a long time. specifically, "Raise rev-limit in all gears to 6600 rpm." for this 1300 model. he also claims he fixes "fueling problems" on the various models. i'm curious what specific things are referred to as "problems". and since he fine tunes each person's ECU to their specific setup (air/exhaust mods), i was hoping Cipher could answer what was specifically, or even vaguely, done to his instead of just the usual after effects dialogue of 'it runs better'. i could go on and on about the new questions that are raised with the new info he's put up, but that road hasn't gone anywhere.

on a side note, he actually offered to give me further explanation of his service to specific questions i had, which i sent him, and then never heard from him again.

bonus points if anyone can explain the following from his site for the 950 model:

"3) Complete re-curve of ignition timing
a) Gets rid of part throttle timing retarder for more response and less vibration when cruising and moderate acceleration.
b) Gets rid of high rpm timing retarder allowing the engine to make maximum power for longer.
c) Set timing for maximium power and driveability across the entire rpm range & all throttle positions"

are all these just the effects from the single action of raising the rev limit of each gear?
I have this mod ad will give the details.


The factory setup in the ECU is not optimal at all for rideability, it is setup for emission which make the bike have the fuel injected quirks we all hate.

The fuel mapping has been changed to the throttle response is smooth and more predictable. No more On/off responses, jerking from idle to on throttle. No chugging in lower gears. The throttle has a much smoother feel like a carb bike. Also when you let off the throttle, since fuel cut has been disabled, the bike doesn't surge in deceleration, so up and down shifting is very smooth.


The re-curve of the ignition timing is set for performance and efficiency. The stock programming runs the timing retarded to keep the exhaust hotter to keep the catalytic converter hot for emissions, the down side is the bike runs hotter and is more sluggish, great for EPA, sucks for riding. This means the timing is advanced from stock, when means the bike runs much better and has way more power at lower RPMS. Since the timing is no longer retarded, 89 octane or higher must be used.

You can actually short shift like a big V Twin with no chugging.

The ECU mod does not add power, but gives the bike a tune so that more power is delivered sooner in the lower RPM range.

The ECU mod does not add fuell like a tuner, but adjusts the fuel tables for better ride ability and disables the ECU looking at the O2 so it can lean the mixture. Yep the O2 sensor actually is being looked at from 500 to 4000 rpm, right where we ride.SO the A/F ratio is more in line with power and not EPA.

The ECU mod is setup for a stock bike, but works fine if you add air and exhaust, if you want more power, then a tuner would be advise to take advantage of the power available to intake and exhaust.

Fuel tunes simply add fuel, but have nothing to do with the ECU mapping, they simply add more than what the ECU commands.

Here is my review on the V Star 1300 forum

WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Immediately the on off throttle was gone, and you could finesse it much better, meaning just adding little twist pressure went a long way, no more having to move the throttle to make something happen at low speeds. If you rapidly let off the throttle, you don't get that rapid deceleration, it is much smoother and gradual, this also means when you accelerate hard and shift up, each time you release the throttle to shift, you don't get that deceleration surge. Also down shifting you don't have to feather the clutch to prevent rapid deceleration surge, it is much smoother.



Now the good good stuff. You get power and I mean power much sooner in the RPM band and it is much more linear. Being in 4th at 45 and punching it, the bike takes off, no hesitation or chug chug. Also I guarantee the bike would do the 1/4 way faster times, because it gets up and goes much much faster if you want it to. Meaning the engine spools faster. I took it out on the free way and gunned it and it was like holy crap, I was in third gear at 80MPH and the bike felt like it was loafing. Yes we all know we can go 80 in third, but he bike got there in 1/2 the time.



At 85 to 90MPH the bike felt like I was holding it back, it had way more power available, and had no problem going hard from 85 and 90. Basically at 85 mph, a little twist and the bike took off, before it would feel like you were getting close to the max power band, and the acceleration was there but more gradual. I quit while I was ahead, because it will get up to those crazy speeds with much less effort. So at 85 MPH, gunning the throttle makes the bike take off.



So I have to adjust a little bit how I ride it, and that is not bad. Because I had to adjust my riding previously to the former way it rode.


One more thing as well. Even at high rpm cruise, the engine is very smooth and not buzzy at all which makes is seem like it is not working as hard.

I am very happy!

When I first heard about Ivan I had a 950 and he wasn't offering flashes back the, and was looking for a 950 to test. Well I sold the 950 and got the 1300 a year ago. By that time he had flashes for the 950 and Bolt.

So I finally got this for my 1300 and it is well worth it.

All the annoyances on the 1300 are 100% ECU related. And it is obvious now.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-08-2016, 04:15 PM
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thanks for the response. yours is the most informative i've ever been able to find on the topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by baron58 View Post
Since the timing is no longer retarded, 89 octane or higher must be used.

The ECU mod does not add power, but gives the bike a tune so that more power is delivered sooner in the lower RPM range.

is this you saying 89 must be used, or what Ivan instructed? is that a must, or a suggestion? why is this needed if there are no changes to the compression and gear ratio? looks like there is some leeway anyway according to the 1300 owner's manual:
"Your Yamaha engine has been designed to use regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number [(R+M)/2] of 86 or higher, or a research octane number of 91 or higher. "

you say the ECU mod does not add power, and seems to be the case with the 1300, but Ivan's dyno charts on the 950 show an increase in both torque and HP beginning around the 4,000 RPM mark. i guess this is going to differ across the various models. would it be safe to summarize your post by saying that this ECU mod 'corrects' the on/off ignition timing to give a smoother acceleration/deceleration across the entire powerband? or that this is the main result the rider notices?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-08-2016, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo1981 View Post
thanks for the response. yours is the most informative i've ever been able to find on the topic.





is this you saying 89 must be used, or what Ivan instructed? is that a must, or a suggestion? why is this needed if there are no changes to the compression and gear ratio? looks like there is some leeway anyway according to the 1300 owner's manual:
"Your Yamaha engine has been designed to use regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number [(R+M)/2] of 86 or higher, or a research octane number of 91 or higher. "

you say the ECU mod does not add power, and seems to be the case with the 1300, but Ivan's dyno charts on the 950 show an increase in both torque and HP beginning around the 4,000 RPM mark. i guess this is going to differ across the various models. would it be safe to summarize your post by saying that this ECU mod 'corrects' the on/off ignition timing to give a smoother acceleration/deceleration across the entire powerband? or that this is the main result the rider notices?

The only reason you can use 87 octane is because the ignition timing is pretty retarded back, this cause the engine to run hotter and have less overall power. Also the retarded timing allows for hotter exhaust temps to keep the factor catalyst hot for emissions.

Here is an exact quote from Ivan when asked on another forum.


Timing retardation gives high exhaust temps.... this keeps the catalyst working.
It also causes the engine to be less responsive and it runs a lot hotter too.
A byproduct of this is that low octane fuel can be used....

Advancing the timing for better mileage and driveability allows the engine to become what the designers meant it to be before the EPA standards had to be met.
This will make the engine run cooler (lower exhaust temps)
It also causes a better grade of fuel to be needed as well.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-08-2016, 05:23 PM
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Also here is a response from Ivan on the 1300 riders forum on what he does and how.



The O2 must be disconnected with my programming. (there is not an option to use it)
The O2 is the worst enemy of any tuner that knows what he is doing, as it only serves to keep a lean hot mixture present and it's only purpose is to keep the catalyst hot and functioning for the epa.
People who use the Cobra auto tuner just need to disconnect the O2 portion of the tuner and it works just fine. (I include instructions with the ecu when it is shipped back)
People who have a power commander will have nothing connected to the O2 harness as well
The reason that the better fuel tuners come with something that plugs into the O2 is that if left unplugged, the ecu will look for it.... while it's looking for it, the mixture will go all over the place with very wide swings ranging from 11-1 all the way to 16-1. Part of my programming is to stop the ecu from looking for it so that the mixture will be stable and can be easily tuned.
The Cobra tuner is not using the sensor to "tune" anything... it's just allowing the original very lean 14.5-1 mixture to remain so they don't have to deal with the O2 interfering.... This is verified by my testing a few years ago and can be seen in my data logs from when I did the testing. (no I'm not posting any of them, if you want the info, do you own tests)

Just know ahead of time that proper wideband readings are not obtained on any V-twin with an open exhaust unless the wideband is installed (screwed into the header) no more than 12 inches out of the exhaust port.... Any further downstream, and the readings will suffer from "dilution". Dilution is when the resonance is so strong that fresh air from the outside is drawn into the exhaust and contaminates (dilutes) the exhaust sample being taken.
Also, proper wideband readings are taken when the equipment reading the sample has a bare minimum sample rate of 60 times per second. My equipment takes 300 samples per second.

Most dyno shops PC tuning centers have equipment that takes between 30 and 60 x per second, but the wideband is in a box on the wall with a pump that blows the sample across the sensor.
3 really bad things going on here:
1) The wideband is totally reliant on it's heater because the sample is too cold by the time it gets to the sensor.
2) The sample takes longer to get to the sensor, so the rpm readout is not accurate because of the time it takes for the gas to flow through the tube.
3) Because the sample can only be taken from the rear of the exhaust, it's readings are always diluted.
Anything that causes the sensor to cool, tends to cause a rich reading.

Power commander uses an O2 controller which sends signals to the ecu to cause a more stable fuel mixture in order to allow the smaller throttle openings to be adjusted without interference from the ecu.... All of these things are just band-aids to try and deal with the O2 issues from the outside. The only way to make the mixture stable and stay where it needs to be for best mileage and driveability is to turn it off inside.
The O2 on this model has it's function up to 30% throttle and is functional from 500 rpm up to 4000.
Btw, the fueling and ignition timing on this bike has not changed since 2007.... all the fuel tables are the same.
The original design had 2 map sensors, this was changed in 2011 (most likely a cost saving measure) thus needing a new ECU and wire harness
The 2007 had a processor that became discontinued and had to be changed because it was no longer available.
My testing has shown that different exhaust designs will cause different fuel requirements, but the differences are not huge, and are mostly at the larger throttle openings due to the resonance being stronger as the throttle is opened. The mixture is always safe and is more consistent than the stock programming ever was.
Stock fuel programming is very lean at part throttle and drowns the engine at full throttle especially the front cylinder.... even with an open intake.
Making any comparisons of this product to any existing product available before .... There is no comparison, it's in another league altogether
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