Well Folks, I'm back for more help.

After talking to some very smart folks it was suggested that I have my carbs totally cleaned and rebuilt. So a good friend of mine, who I am convinced can do ANYTHING, agreed to take my bike and do all the work for just the cost of the parts and some help on his barn down the road.

He removed the carbs and told me that he had never seen a set of carbs with corrosion inside and the screws rusted. They were pretty bad apparently. Needless to say he gave them a good cleaning and then rebuilt them with all new parts, o-rings, gaskets, etc. He put it back together and still we have the same problem.

He mentioned that when he took the carbs off he went to dump the fuel and the carb for the rear cylinder has a lot of fuel but the front didn't seem to have that much. He's now thinking that it's maybe the fuel pump (The PO said he replaced it, I doubt it) or a problem with the fuel lines. It just doesn't sound like the front cylinder is getting enough fuel.

I'm asking for any and all help. The bike is a 2000 V-Star 1100 Classic. If you search my posts you'll find that I've ran a can of seafoam through the bike already and I'm still having this problem.

Thanks for any help!

That's a real bummer Jarhead.

1st thing I'd try would be to see if there is a good gas supply to the front cylinder carb. Is it possible to pull off the gas line at the carb and start the bike briefly to see if gas streams out?

My good friend Wart, how are ya?

He can't work on it tonight, so he's going to try tomorrow. The plan is to trace the hoses back from the carbs to the pump, making sure we have no crimps/cuts/holes. If not then he's going to take them off and blow them out with the compressor to make sure there's nothing clogging them.

We did confirm that the fuel is coming out of the petcock ok, from both normal and reserve positions.

I miss riding!

Okay Jarhead, I look forward to the next report. I also sent you a PM.

Ok, so the fuel is pumping out to both carbs. Tom disconnected both lines going to the carbs and turned the bike on...sure enough fuel pumped both ways. No crimps in the lines.

So, I have to ask again, is there anything I'm missing? Throttle Position Sensor? The carbs have been cleaned/rebuilt/synced so I'm at a loss.

Sounds like when you "bog down" the carb is delivering to much fuel (rich condition). You said your friend found corrosion and rusted screws. Did he manage to clean out all of the orifices and holes the screws were in? You could have a clogged passage that is required to meter the fuel flow.

Can you get your hands on a pair of loaner carbs to test out against your own? I hate to say this but you may you need new carbs if all else checks out.

Ok, so the fuel is pumping out to both carbs. Tom disconnected both lines going to the carbs and turned the bike on...sure enough fuel pumped both ways. No crimps in the lines.

So, I have to ask again, is there anything I'm missing? Throttle Position Sensor? The carbs have been cleaned/rebuilt/synced so I'm at a loss.

Hi Jarhead, just a thought on this end, but a small vacuum leak will play havoc.May not be it at all, but with your po, it is worth a look:) Ride safe.

Sounds like your on the right track. You didn't mention the fuel line from the pump to the front carb, is it clear? Other that that i would be looking at vaccuum leeks and possibly a clogged passage inside the carb as has already been pointed out by everyone. Narrowed down to the carb.

My psychic powers are telling me you will be on the road again soon! http://websmileys.com/sm/happy/1055.gif Good luck on the barn. Need help with that?

Can you swap the front and rear carbs to see if the problem switches to the rear cylinder?

Well Folks, I'm back for more help.

After talking to some very smart folks it was suggested that I have my carbs totally cleaned and rebuilt. So a good friend of mine, who I am convinced can do ANYTHING, agreed to take my bike and do all the work for just the cost of the parts and some help on his barn down the road.

He removed the carbs and told me that he had never seen a set of carbs with corrosion inside and the screws rusted. They were pretty bad apparently. Needless to say he gave them a good cleaning and then rebuilt them with all new parts, o-rings, gaskets, etc. He put it back together and still we have the same problem.

He mentioned that when he took the carbs off he went to dump the fuel and the carb for the rear cylinder has a lot of fuel but the front didn't seem to have that much. He's now thinking that it's maybe the fuel pump (The PO said he replaced it, I doubt it) or a problem with the fuel lines. It just doesn't sound like the front cylinder is getting enough fuel.

I'm asking for any and all help. The bike is a 2000 V-Star 1100 Classic. If you search my posts you'll find that I've ran a can of seafoam through the bike already and I'm still having this problem.

Thanks for any help!

G'Day mate, sorry to hear your having troubles again but looks like the cavalry has come to help, wish I knew a little more about carbs to offer advice. All the boys are making good suggestions by the look of it.

Can you swap the front and rear carbs to see if the problem switches to the rear cylinder?

That's a thought...i wonder if it's possible to just spin the whole assembly around? ...nope...then the throttle cable would have to come from the other direction....hmmm....i wish i was there....maybe have your friend rev the engine while you squirt a little gas into that cylinder?

You said there wasn't much gas in that carbs float bowl when you took it off. That would suggest maybe a plugged up fuel circuit inside the carb.http://websmileys.com/sm/sad/533.gif

It sounds like something i would love to get my hands on....but i'm too far awayhttp://websmileys.com/sm/sad/494.gif

I did consider the throttle cable but that can be pushed open with a push of a screwdriver without hooking up the cable. Done in the barn and not out riding it obviously. But I wouldn't be surprised if the bolt patterns prevent us from trying it.

I did consider the throttle cable but that can be pushed open with a push of a screwdriver without hooking up the cable. Done in the barn and not out riding it obviously. But I wouldn't be surprised if the bolt patterns prevent us from trying it.

Bolt patterns? Hmmm..my thought was leave them bolted together and spin them around 180 degrees (looking from the top). My '05 1100 has rubber manifolds. Should be able to 'plug them right back in' and start it up.

Did i lose track of what kind of bike we're dealing with?

Not you, it's me, I don't have the 1100 so I'm just trying to imagine the whole configuration. http://emoticonszone.com/emoticons-for-msn/Angry-animated-emoticons-smileys-for-msn-yahoo-gmail-skype-myspace-hi5-facebook/images/b3.gif

Well, I haven't heard from Tom today, but my guess is that his promise of a running bike by Tuesday won't come to fruition. I do have a friend with some Mikuni carbs but I don't know if they are the right ones. I'm also looking to find some used carbs.

Thanks for all the input, I've been feeding it to Tom. I really hope to be on the rode soon, or I'll have to ride through the winter to catch up on my riding!

And you guys are great! That's what's awesome about this forum, everyone coming out to help when a fellow rider is in need!

everyone coming out to help when a fellow rider is in need!

Beyond all the fluff, it is Semper Fi, my friend:D

Did you do any good today with your bike? We are waiting to hear the fix:cool: Ride safe.

I would look at the one with very little gas. Although this could be a problem with the floats not adjusted properly if you know gas is getting to the carb then the block should be between the hose and the bowl. Have him hook up the hose and blow. If air doesn't get through either does fuel.

Also what kind of exhaust do you have? If your exhaust is blocked you can get bogging because it can't get rid of the exhaust gas.

My buddy Tom isn't the best at communicating. If I don't hear anything this weekend then I'll hear something tomorrow which I expect to be bad news.

I have left him a message to check a blocked exhaust and to check the carbs again to make sure there isn't any blockage. I'm pretty sure he's been working on it all weekend because the last he told me on Thursday was that he expected to have it fixed by Saturday.

I'm running stock exhaust and we can feel exhaust blowing out when the engine is running at idle.

Can't wait to hear more.

So, it seems that Tom got the bike running somewhat ok the other day but when he took it out for a ride he got it up to 50 mph and then he loses power. Pretty much the same problem. I have suggested the he take the muffler pipes just to let it runs straight to see if that eases the problem (blocked pipes).

I have also suggested he remove the gas cap to make sure we don't have a vacuum issue.

He's also going to be checking the carbs synchronization again.

Any thoughts on the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)? Also, does anyone know if the 2000 1100 Classic has Rev Limiters?

So, it seems that Tom got the bike running somewhat ok the other day but when he took it out for a ride he got it up to 50 mph and then he loses power. Pretty much the same problem. I have suggested the he take the muffler pipes just to let it runs straight to see if that eases the problem (blocked pipes).

I have also suggested he remove the gas cap to make sure we don't have a vacuum issue.

He's also going to be checking the carbs synchronization again.

Any thoughts on the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)? Also, does anyone know if the 2000 1100 Classic has Rev Limiters?

Did he run the RPM's up in each gear?...and all was well untill he got to 50mph?

If the exhaust was clogged bad enough to do that you would be able to tell while twisting the throttle in neutral and holding your hand over the end of the pipe.

Your bike doesn't have a TPS that i'm aware of, that's EFI.

You got vaccuum leaks and/or a fuel delivery problem.

That's my 2 cents. With me being an electrician you shouldn't listen to me about motorcycle mechanics anyway. That is the direction i would be looking if my bike was having those problems.

If you need help with the wiring in your home/business/factory give me a callhttp://websmileys.com/sm/happy/042.gif

Hmmm Call me crazy but sounds to me that you run alot of Ethanol gasoline, and with your description of the carbs from your earlier post sounds to me like maybe the corrison has ruin your carbs. The reason i say this is because i have an old 50 mercury outboard,I have gone through the 3 carbs 3 times myself and never could get the top end right. Let my buddy look at it, he got it dam close, but it still had issues. My other friend wanted it and upon getting it he went through the carbs, even boiling them like in the old days. Still had issues with the middle carb. He said F- it and put on an use carb off an old beater motor and it runs the best it has ever ran. So what i am getting at is try and find another used carb and you might be on the road faster than messing with this one. Good luck and keep us advise.

Hmmm Call me crazy but sounds to me that you run alot of Ethanol gasoline, and with your description of the carbs from your earlier post sounds to me like maybe the corrison has ruin your carbs. The reason i say this is because i have an old 50 mercury outboard,I have gone through the 3 carbs 3 times myself and never could get the top end right. Let my buddy look at it, he got it dam close, but it still had issues. My other friend wanted it and upon getting it he went through the carbs, even boiling them like in the old days. Still had issues with the middle carb. He said F- it and put on an use carb off an old beater motor and it runs the best it has ever ran. So what i am getting at is try and find another used carb and you might be on the road faster than messing with this one. Good luck and keep us advise.

Widow Maker, you're not to far off post. I have already started looking into getting a set of used carbs for the bike. A friend has a 7 mikuni carbs at his place, we just need to see if they're the right ones. Hopefully I'll know this evening.

You have the patience of a saint Jarhead. I'd have taken off the carbs and thrown them out into the woods as hard as I could, then go look for them, bring them back and smash them into a million pieces with a cement block.

You have the patience of a saint Jarhead. I'd have taken off the carbs and thrown them out into the woods as hard as I could, then go look for them, bring them back and smash them into a million pieces with a cement block.

Wart, a couple of years ago I would have done just that...I guess when the white started popping up in the goatee I decided it wasn't worth it.

Carbs turned into dust are worth less than broken carbs.

Wart, a couple of years ago I would have done just that...I guess when the white started popping up in the goatee I decided it wasn't worth it.

Carbs turned into dust are worth less than broken carbs.

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse with everyone saying they believe it's the carb. But... I agree with them 100%. Although I think it's only one carb that is holding you back. Awhile back I ran into the same issue trying to diagnose a Sportster (only one carb) over another Forum. Eventually I came to the conclusion after having the guy check everything else that is was a bad carb.

If by chance you have a fuel filter in the set-up, you may want to do away with it just to check it out. As you increase speed, the engine requires more fuel. If there is a clogged filter, this restricts the fuel flow, and the engine will bog down.

Good Luck....

Thanks Silverstreek. I hope to hear more tomorrow from Tom, but we're both starting to think the carbs may be shot. I've been pricing a set of used carbs, but they're looking to be $150 at the cheapest...and that's if they're even decent.

If anyone knows of any 1100 carbs sitting around that they'd like to get rid of for a decent price let me know.

We need to take a poll to complete this investigation. Let's start the voting here. Do you think the problem is:

A)Muffler bearings

B)Carburator

C)Blinker fluid

D)Insufficient Flux Capacitation

http://websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1087.gif

I am gonna go with A!!!!

If the past few months are any indication for what may follow, I think we will need "E", all of the above :D

We need to take a poll to complete this investigation. Let's start the voting here. Do you think the problem is:

A)Muffler bearings

B)Carburator

C)Blinker fluid

D)Insufficient Flux Capacitation

http://websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1087.gif

Sparky, you forgot the Garbage compactification tubes? Don't forget them. They'll shut you down everytime:D

You know, Widow Maker brings up a valid point! In this State of Denial (Maryland) they do use a mixture of this Ethanol year round. I know Ethanol contains moisture (which has already screwed up the gas guage sender in our Bravada) so I wouldn't be shocked if the carbs are messed up within the fuel passages blocking fuel.

Something else I was thinking about. What are the chances of both carbs going bad at once? I doubt they are both messed up. I would only buy one unless you get some kind of super deal on two? Once you find the bad one, I would soak it for days to break up the crap that clogs the fuel passages, and then rebuild it.

One thing that does trouble me about the carb remedy is this. Does the bike bog down without a load? Or only with a load? The reason I ask is, if it does bog with no load while twisting the throttle, and it happens at a certain RPM? I'm still under the belief it may be a fuel problem related, the more demand for fuel, now neither carb can get enough to maintain speed because of the higher demand for more fuel flow.

Isn't this fuel shutoff vacuum controlled? Meaning vacuum from the engine is needed to open the fuel shut off valve so it can supply fuel? If so, I would see if there is a screen within the shutoff valve and either clean or replace it. You may have seen fuel flow from this valve before, but you're not supplying a demand for a larger amount of fuel that you might not have been able to see at that time?

Also make sure if there is a vaccum line going to this fuel shutoff valve, that it's in place, and not dry rotted and it's connected at the other end to the carb or where-ever it goes.

I'm thinking about all of this. Saying also I'm not sure if your bike has this fuel shut off valve. One other thing to check. If the bike doesn't have this vacuum valve I'm speaking of? Check the Reserve/Run valve by taking it apart to be sure this funk due to the Ethanol moisture hasn't partially blocked the screen or valve inside. I'd hate to see you look for and spend money buying carbs if that isn't the problem?

Us Forum Members are still trying to give you some ideas here! And we'll not stop until it's fixed and you're back to riding again!!

Be Safe.....

You know, Widow Maker brings up a valid point! In this State of Denial (Maryland) they do use a mixture of this Ethanol year round. I know Ethanol contains moisture (which has already screwed up the gas guage sender in our Bravada) so I wouldn't be shocked if the carbs are messed up within the fuel passages blocking fuel.

Something else I was thinking about. What are the chances of both carbs going bad at once? I doubt they are both messed up. I would only buy one unless you get some kind of super deal on two? Once you find the bad one, I would soak it for days to break up the crap that clogs the fuel passages, and then rebuild it.

One thing that does trouble me about the carb remedy is this. Does the bike bog down without a load? Or only with a load? The reason I ask is, if it does bog with no load while twisting the throttle, and it happens at a certain RPM? I'm still under the belief it may be a fuel problem related, the more demand for fuel, now neither carb can get enough to maintain speed because of the higher demand for more fuel flow.

Isn't this fuel shutoff vacuum controlled? Meaning vacuum from the engine is needed to open the fuel shut off valve so it can supply fuel? If so, I would see if there is a screen within the shutoff valve and either clean or replace it. You may have seen fuel flow from this valve before, but you're not supplying a demand for a larger amount of fuel that you might not have been able to see at that time?

Also make sure if there is a vaccum line going to this fuel shutoff valve, that it's in place, and not dry rotted and it's connected at the other end to the carb or where-ever it goes.

I'm thinking about all of this. Saying also I'm not sure if your bike has this fuel shut off valve. One other thing to check. If the bike doesn't have this vacuum valve I'm speaking of? Check the Reserve/Run valve by taking it apart to be sure this funk due to the Ethanol moisture hasn't partially blocked the screen or valve inside. I'd hate to see you look for and spend money buying carbs if that isn't the problem?

Us Forum Members are still trying to give you some ideas here! And we'll not stop until it's fixed and you're back to riding again!!

Be Safe.....

Streek, thanks for the input! This type of information is just what I was looking for. I already have my buddy planning on soaking the carbs just to make sure we have them clean. I am so ready to get back on the bike.

The thing about the Ethanol is it does attack metal because of moisture. The end result from water being mixed with metal products in a fuel form, once dried the build-up of corrosion turns into something resembling white powder (I ain't talking about that kind of white powder either).

It's this that ends up clogging the metal areas inside of the fuel system from the fuel tank, to the carbs! If there is indeed a small screen inside of the either the vacuum controlled shut off valve, or the reserve/on/shut off valve. I'll almost guarantee there is corrosion clogging this screen and severely slowing the flow of fuel, and the engine can't properly respond because the higher the speed, the more fuel is required, not enough fuel is getting through the clog to keep the engine going because of the higher demand for fuel, and it will bog down for the lack of fuel.

I believe you said you've checked this already? After you run the engine, and immediately after the engine is shut off. Did you remove the fuel cap only to hear or feel suction coming from the tank itself as you removed the cap? If so? It's either the fuel tank vent tube is blocked, or a blocked vent in the cap itself.

About the carbs. Soak them in stuff called Sea Foam! And soak them for a couple of days. Then take a small piece of plastic coated wire and run it through every small hole in the carbs (using plastic coated wire prevents you from gouging the aluminum passage ways with anything sharp). You may also want to buy yourself a set of Tip Cleaners for the super small holes in the jets and such(just be careful using these). As you clean these holes, make sure you use compressed air at least 100 PSI to blow into these holes, make sure you feel air coming out of the other end (every hole has an exit!) If you can't feel air coming out of somewhere? The passageway is still blocked. As for getting the Sea Foam, you can get it at places like Auto Zone, Napa, Advance. As for the Tip Cleaners, you can buy these at any welding supply, or Lowe's and Home Depot in the Tool section where the welding stuff is. They don't cost much at all. And they're well worth the small investment.

A couple more ideas for you and your buddy.
Good Luck!

More often than not, it's the simple things that cause problems. I've seen and delt with this many times while troubleshooting various problems no matter what I was working on. Always look for the simple things that don't cost money first!

Silverstreek... i didn't realize ethanol was such a problem. Makes sence now. Aluminum is a great electrical conductor and we have to use anti-oxident on aluminum connections because when electrically energized aluminum will rust very rapidly, hence the white crust on our battery post.
This ethanol is obviously rusting our aluminum carbs & throttle bodies. White crust/powder coming off aluminum is nothing more than rust. I guess we better find a different material to make our intakes out of. I can see this issue becoming serious.

Another huge problem with Ethanol in the gasoline is the fact it doesn't do well sitting inside of the fuel system because it starts to break down much faster than pure Gasoline does. When fuel breaks down, it starts to leave nasty deposits inside of the fuel supply system, and carb. Add to that the moisture content in the Ethanol, you're now dealing with more water too. Between the build-up of this powder and the moisture, it's no wonder engines of all types are messing up.

Recently I had to tear down the fuel system in my Son-In-Laws John Deere Gasoline Lawn Tractor because it wasn't running up to speed, plus he said it wouldn't idle at all. It would die out when he wanted to get the tractor to go faster (the carb needed more fuel, but couldn't get it), or if he pulled the throttle back.

What we found was the metal supply tube from the fuel tank to the carb was almost completely blocked by this simi hard substance that when we cleared it out, was a white looking powder in small chunks. The thing is, this fuel supply tube was a steel line. And to clean it out, we used a 1/32 dia wire, plus a lot of force to break through this crap! From what I've seen working on various Gasoline engines, this white residue affects aluminum and steel. I know it sounds a little far fetched, but I've delt with it.

The carb bowl on this engine also had a good amount of water mixed in with the gas. I also found both slow and high speed jets to be partially blocked by what looked like rust and some kind of build-up (the jets are brass). Because I had to clean the jets several times that day, we dumped the fuel in the small tank out and into a container to see what the deal was? When we looked into this container about an hour later, there was about 25% water mixed in with the gas. plus it had very small particles of black pieces mixed in? Maybe this is some type of rust? He keeps his Tractor in a building, so it's not exposed to rain and snow. So where did the water come from? We added new fuel, and replaced the filter. This last finally got rid of the junk and water in the fuel.

Between cleaning the fuel line (about 95% closed off due to the white build-up) cleaning the jets, and replacing the fuel. The engine would finally run and idle like it was supposed to.

About the only thing I would recommend is adding Sea Foam, a good fuel additive, or a good fuel stabilizer into the tank, even when your running the engine. I would use it especially when it's up for the winter, or not being used as much. At least this stuff helps get rid of the excess moisture in your fuel system. This may help keep things cleaner, and rid the build-up of this white looking build up, and rust in the complete fuel supply system.

This Ethanol looks like it will be around for awhile, so we need to start some type of prevenatative maintenance to prevent this from happening. Adding a fuel stabilizer several times a year, and especially at the end of the riding season is much cheaper in the long run. Like anything else, we are just finding out how this type of fuel is reacting to the system in general. Now we need to figure out what works, and let everyone know what does, and doesn't work?

Note: As I wrote this I reminded myself I have yet to introduce anything to rid my own fuel system of moisture. I guess I need to do so....... I am going to add Sea Foam to my fuel every other fill up. It can't hurt?

Sorry for the long post. I tried to be as informative as possible so everyone can understand what we are dealing with. And this was a single carb. Who knows what this stuff is going to do with the fuel injection systems in the near future?

Be Safe.

So we are in on the ground floor of our own patent.....let's begin. We need to design a fuel delivery system:

A) made out of non-conductive, corrosion/oxidation resistant, moisture repellant material with a low expansion coefficient.

B) a fuel system with water seperation filters

C) ??? What else ???

So we are in on the ground floor of our own patent.....let's begin. We need to design a fuel delivery system:

A) made out of non-conductive, corrosion/oxidation resistant, moisture repellant material with a low expansion coefficient.

B) a fuel system with water seperation filters

C) ??? What else ???

You have a good start!

I was thinking when I was writing some of this early this morning that we actually need PLASTIC CARBS! ha ha ha......

Everything else seems to be made of plastic. Why not future fuel systems? (My sorry attempt at being funny):rolleyes:

But.....Smoke, your idea of a fuel system with a water separator is actually a great idea. I have one on my boat, so why not use these on Motorcycles, Cars, and Trucks?

Although the one on my boat is slightly large, we'd need a smaller design for our bikes! If a water separator were available, I'd install one on mine...

Be Safe.....

So folks, to those of you following this horror story, I have an update. Tom took the carbs off last night and blew them out completely...again. He then sprayed carb cleaner through them and remounted. He started the bike and was able to pull on the throttle without too much of a problem. The carbs really need to be synched since they have been tuned/turned and rebuilt. He ordered a new vacuum gauge and hopes to have it today.

If all goes well he'll be test riding tomorrow (if the gauge shows up) and I will be picking the bike up on Saturday!!!

Wish both Tom and I luck...

Good luck and don't forget to keep us informed.

Well Jarhead? Half the weekend is now officially shot. We are all looking to hear any updates on your scoot. Sitting here with a cup-o-joe, hoping you have good news

Hello I have some food for thought on this, if your carbs were that bad off so is your fuel tank. Once the rust and corrosion sets in even after taking care of the carbs you will have to either replace the fuel tank or put a liner in it cuz that crap will end right back up in the carbs again, been there done that:eek:

Hello everybody, im new and not sure how to start a new thread but my problems are very similar so im starting here.

I have a 2000 V-Star 650 Classic that is giving nothing but headaches and some of the testing procedures in the manual are vague at best, or they dont seem like a complete test.

slowly but surely this bike has lost power and now does not want to run above idle without a fight, the bike was purchased used and is a california model. The previous owner removed the emissions canister and capped the lines.

since the bikes history is unknown we started with the basic tune up.

through trial and error, bad testing procedures, and bad advice we have had some costly and unneccessary repairs with no results other than more frustration..... this has led to replacement of the following, starting with good clean fuel, the fuel filter, air filter, oil filter and oil, spark plugs, ignition coils, mag pick up, TPS, and have run b-12 through the carbs, also disassembled and cleaned them.

we are stumped and very frustrated!!! my current question is about the fuel pump but welcome ANY advice from fellow owners....

heres the deal... the fuel pump test in the book says basically apply battery power to the pump ... if it pumps fuel its good... Really? are you kidding me? we took the test a little farther to see how long it ran, suction side is connected to fuel tank, with valve on main, discharge side is to a gas can. it seems it has a cycle, it runs for about 7 seconds and shuts off but does not restart.... i would assume that it is supposed to stay running or at least cycle on when it senses low pressure but still nothing....

MrB17...once you post an introduction in the 'new members' and reply a few times 'in that thread' you'll be able to post more.

That said....have you cleaned ALL the jets inside the carb?

ok thank you, yes i believe so, we took them apart and found very little residue of old fuel, but seems all passages had an exit when sprayed with carb cleaner, got an eyefull from one passage... that stuff stings lol

we have also done a cylinder leakage test and they test good, so im not worried about the valves, pistons etc...

posted my problem in new thread "wont run above idle... fuel pump" i know im new but expected more responses... waiting 4 help Hello everybody, im new and not sure how to start a new thread but my problems are very similar so im starting here.

I have a 2000 V-Star 650 Classic that is giving nothing but headaches and some of the testing procedures in the manual are vague at best, or they dont seem like a complete test.

slowly but surely this bike has lost power and now does not want to run above idle without a fight, the bike was purchased used and is a california model. The previous owner removed the emissions canister and capped the lines.

since the bikes history is unknown we started with the basic tune up.

through trial and error, bad testing procedures, and bad advice we have had some costly and unneccessary repairs with no results other than more frustration..... this has led to replacement of the following, starting with good clean fuel, the fuel filter, air filter, oil filter and oil, spark plugs, ignition coils, mag pick up, TPS, and have run b-12 through the carbs, also disassembled and cleaned them.

we are stumped and very frustrated!!! my current question is about the fuel pump but welcome ANY advice from fellow owners....

heres the deal... the fuel pump test in the book says basically apply battery power to the pump ... if it pumps fuel its good... Really? are you kidding me? we took the test a little farther to see how long it ran, suction side is connected to fuel tank, with valve on main, discharge side is to a gas can. it seems it has a cycle, it runs for about 7 seconds and shuts off but does not restart.... i would assume that it is supposed to stay running or at least cycle on when it senses low pressure but still nothing....

Ok folks, I just got a message from my buddy Tom. The bike seems to be fixed. He has swapped out the fuel and cleaned the tank. He had to soak the front carb in cleaner but that seams to have done the trick. Due to a commitment tonight I can't pick the bike up till tomorrow! I really hope to have it back soon and catching up on some much needed riding time!

best of luck to you Jarhead, the frustration sounds to be at the end, enjoy your riding!!!

Ok folks, I just got a message from my buddy Tom. The bike seems to be fixed. He has swapped out the fuel and cleaned the tank. He had to soak the front carb in cleaner but that seams to have done the trick. Due to a commitment tonight I can't pick the bike up till tomorrow! I really hope to have it back soon and catching up on some much needed riding time!

Great to hear mate, hope it all goes well, let us know.

Hello I have some food for thought on this, if your carbs were that bad off so is your fuel tank. Once the rust and corrosion sets in even after taking care of the carbs you will have to either replace the fuel tank or put a liner in it cuz that crap will end right back up in the carbs again, been there done that:eek:

Good Point! Because of this Ethanol crap some of us have to use, we are dealing with moisture. And as we all know, moisture doesn't do well with the metal inside of the tank.

Granted if there is rust inside of the carb? There is going to be rust inside of the tank. This is why it's super important to use some type of fuel treatment, if for nothing else, to help dry up the moisture inside of the tank and complete fuel system.

Be Safe.....

Glad to hear it, Jarhead! As you know, I lost a couple weeks of this riding season, and it sucked!

Hope it stays in good shape from here on out.

Ok folks, I just got a message from my buddy Tom. The bike seems to be fixed. He has swapped out the fuel and cleaned the tank. He had to soak the front carb in cleaner but that seams to have done the trick. Due to a commitment tonight I can't pick the bike up till tomorrow! I really hope to have it back soon and catching up on some much needed riding time!

That sounds GREAT! Glad you got good news from your Buddy. I would imagine after this everyone involved learned more than they bargained for? One thing is for sure, once you learn something like this, it's very helpful down the road if a problem like this ever pops up again. Hopefully if it ever does, it's on someone elses bike........ :rolleyes:

Great to hear. Now go out and HAVE FUN!!!

Yeah, I'd like to point out to everyone that is having carb/throttle issues, try the SeaFoam a few times, but if that doesn't seem to do it then pull those carbs, soak them good and then get a compressor and blow them out. Spend the bucks to buy two rebuild kits so all the parts that can be swapped are.

This was a long painful process...way more painful than I wanted.

Thanks Jarhead1100,

Glad you are up and running!!!

Yeah, I'd like to point out to everyone that is having carb/throttle issues, try the SeaFoam a few times, but if that doesn't seem to do it then pull those carbs, soak them good and then get a compressor and blow them out. Spend the bucks to buy two rebuild kits so all the parts that can be swapped are.

This was a long painful process...way more painful than I wanted.

Jarhead, Something I do (like my Generator I only use when the power is out) if I have a piece of equipment I don't use for long periods of time, I turn the fuel off, and run the engine until it burns all of the fuel out and stops running.

With these newer fuel injected bikes, you can't do this! Even if you install a fuel off switch from the tank, it may damage the fuel pump. And it used to be a person would completely fill the fuel tank before letting the bike sit for a few months. It's because of the Ethanol mixed in with the gas, you'll have water sitting in the bottom of the tank during this shut-down period.

I use this stuff Chevron makes that comes in a black bottle. It cleans carbs, tanks, and fuel injectors. Plus it also helps get rid of the moisture in the fuel. When I put the bike up for the winter I use a fuel conditioner which also helps get rid of moisture, but you need to run it so it enters the injectors or carbs.

This new fuel starts to break down (if memory serves me correct?) within 30 days. Two factors can change this. One, use fuel from the big named stations, like Exxon, Mobil, Shell...... These fuel stations have additives added to them from the suppliers, unlike some of the well known cheaper gas stations (which I won't name). And if you use the better grade higer octane fuel. This takes longer to break down.

Seafoam is a good additive while you are running your engine. But, it won't cure problems after they happen (I don't know if there is anything that will fix blockages after the fact?). Only a good type of fuel stabilizer (like Sta-bil) added during periods of non-use will help keep gas from breaking down as fast. As Seafoam goes, it is great when completely submerging your carbs for 24-48 hours. It softens the blockages which makes them easier to get out of the smaller passages within the carbs if they are really blocked.

But see, now you're a Pro at diagnosing fuel related problems on your own bike! The next time someone asks these fuel and carb related questions, you'll be able to help them..... From experience, learning the hard way seems to stay in my brain longer than non traumatic experiences I've gone through trying to fix something.

And I know this experience had to be Traumatic!! I mean your ride was down for the count until it was fixed. What could be more traumatic than that?:)

Also a inline fuel filter helps keep alot of junk out of your carbs. Last year my yamaha 450 kodiak was having fuel issues so i cleaned them out and installed a simple cheap fuel filter, and it works. I also, 98% of the time, burn real gas. Remember when we were kids and this ethanol was going to be a $1.00 a gallon and real gas was going to be $2.00?? For a dollar difference in the price i might run ethanol. But for the .10-.15 cents differeance i will run real gas and not have the issues.

Also a inline fuel filter helps keep alot of junk out of your carbs. Last year my yamaha 450 kodiak was having fuel issues so i cleaned them out and installed a simple cheap fuel filter, and it works. I also, 98% of the time, burn real gas. Remember when we were kids and this ethanol was going to be a $1.00 a gallon and real gas was going to be $2.00?? For a dollar difference in the price i might run ethanol. But for the .10-.15 cents differeance i will run real gas and not have the issues.

Where we are, we don't have a choice. We have to burn this mix of fuel and ethanol. We live in a State where they decided this type of fuel would cut down on pollution. It used to be the State required we use this mixture of fuel only during the winter months. Then someone got the bright idea to do this all year around!

I don't believe there is a Station that can sell unmixed fuel in this Liberal State? You are fortunate to have a choice in the matter. You at least have complete Freedom! We on the other hand are told we have complete Freedom.:eek:

I have actually done some research and found that there are places on the eastern shore of Maryland that do have ethanol free gas (probably for boats). The rest of the state is with ethanol. This might be a stupid question but would burning a higher octane fuel help?

Wounder if you could add this thing I saw a few years ago for snowmobiles to remove water from the tank.

I have actually done some research and found that there are places on the eastern shore of Maryland that do have ethanol free gas (probably for boats). The rest of the state is with ethanol. This might be a stupid question but would burning a higher octane fuel help?

Actually it's not a stupid question. From what I read about the higher grades of gasoline which have a higher octane rating. These fuels have better additives added to them during the refining process. I actually saw a show on how these big Gasoline producing Companies refine and add these additives to the different grade fuels. Remember, these are the bigger well known companies who add these additives, not the big el-cheap-o Stations.

They actually add these additives into the fuel, and then check the required specifications by dumping a small amount into a beeker and testing it to make sure the whole batch meets with the specs set forth by people like Shell, Mobil, Exxon..........

It's these higher rated fuels with the better additives that combat the fuel from breaking down as early as fuels that have no additives. Another advantage to higher octane fuels is if you've ever noticed, run a tank of low grade fuel, and then run the same amount of high grade fuel in your vehicle. You'll actually get more umph and better fuel mileage.

I'm not saying the better fuel mileage will off-set the higher price of High Test. I am saying what I learned from reading and watching this program is you get a bigger bang for your buck. Not only higher octane, but much better additives which help combat things like moisture, carbon, and more. You also get the advantage of these additives when running the fuel through your complete fuel supply system. The entire fuel system gets a good cleaning as this fuel containing additives is run through carbs as well as fuel injection.

Now, I'm no scientist. All I'm repeating is what I saw. I can say after tearing down engines that had cheap grade fuel and no additives added by the owner. The valves, tops of the pistons, and combustion chamber were NASTY. The total opposite in an engine that had a good grade of fuel with additives used in it. I've seen this during the years I've worked on and replaced engines. So it does pay in the long run.

I hope this helps?

Just a comment here on the quality of gas discussion, I do not know if it is the same everywhere, but suspect it is, local here we have a BIG dealer with many stations with a fleet of tankers. They load their trucks at the terminal and unload at the Marathon ones they have, and all the Jim Bobs Super Gas, Gomers Quick stop, ect,(you get the picture) all the gas comes from the same tanker:eek: SO, is it so much different? Just something to think about:rolleyes: Ride Safe:cool:

(maybe ad campaigns cost money?)

Just a comment here on the quality of gas discussion, I do not know if it is the same everywhere, but suspect it is, local here we have a BIG dealer with many stations with a fleet of tankers. They load their trucks at the terminal and unload at the Marathon ones they have, and all the Jim Bobs Super Gas, Gomers Quick stop, ect,(you get the picture) all the gas comes from the same tanker:eek: SO, is it so much different? Just something to think about:rolleyes: Ride Safe:cool:

(maybe ad campaigns cost money?)

Major Companies like Shell, Exxon, Mobil, Sunoco, not sure about BP and Marathon? The Major Companies do add these additives in their fuels (according to them). And you are correct, the adds cost them a lot of money.

I would venture to say if these additives weren't added like they say? I'm sure the smaller supply Companies would take them to Court for false adds. But honestly, who's to say?

I have seen engines apart where the owner used only one of the larger Oil Co's I mentioned high test fuel. These engines were much cleaner inside of the head areas, valves, and the tops of the pistons. I've also seen engines where the owner (my own Mom) only used fuel from the local Wa Wa Station. She only used the cheapest fuel she could buy. When I pulled her engine down, the heads, valves, and piston tops were full of carbon and just plain nasty looking. To add, the injectors were caked up with funk!

I know these tanker trucks have different compartments for the different rated fuels. If they are under contract to supply different stations? I have no idea. All I can write you all is what I saw and read. But..... As my Wife keeps telling me (mostly about Politics) You can't believe anything you see or hear!

I feel if the correct rated fuel is used in my Raider, the engine will perform like they should, and end up cleaner inside. I also use 4 oz of the Chevron (Black Bottle) Techron Fuel System Cleaner in my Raider once every season. I also use it in all 7 of our other vehicles. Unfortunately this additive does nothing about excess moisture (at least it doesn't say anything on the bottle about that subject). If you've never used this additive? Don't be shocked if you see how much it is a bottle. It isn't the cheapest on the market.

I can believe the Techron is put in all of our fuel tanks. I put it in there! I know that statement is absolutely true :D

In the outfit I spoke of, they own em all!:eek: I do agree with what you are saying, it is just one never knows what the
hell is going on today. I am on the same page as your wifey more or less,in this world we live in today, believe none of what you hear, VERY little of what you see:( Sad but true. Whatever the case, my friend, Ride Safe, and live long:cool

In the outfit I spoke of, they own em all!:eek: I do agree with what you are saying, it is just one never knows what the
hell is going on today. I am on the same page as your wifey more or less,in this world we live in today, believe none of what you hear, VERY little of what you see:( Sad but true. Whatever the case, my friend, Ride Safe, and live long:cool

I grew up saying "Never believe what you hear, and only half of what you see" Don't know where I picked it up, but they were words to live by.

I did read a Post someone wrote a few weeks ago about the Fuel Delivery Industry. He said he was a truck driver delivering fuel to different locations. When Diesel fuel was cheaper than Regular gasoline (a long time ago), he was told by his Supervisor to add Diesel into the underground tanks that held Regular Gasoline.:eek:

Although he did tell everyone this story, he never mentioned exactly how much the Gasoline was cut? Just as a note: He went on to say this Company is no longer in the fuel delivery business (wonder why?).

Boy, talk about the need for fuel injector cleaner!

My comment isn't about the quality of the fuel or it's additives....kinda sorta related to the general topic. Bare with me and telll me what you think.

I've known guys that will not gas up at a station if they know thier (underground) tanks are within 2 days of being filled by a tanker. The reasoning was (1) when the tanks are close to empty the pumps are picking up the sludge from the bottom and (2) when the tanks have just been filled all the sludge (and condensation) has been stirred up, so wait a day for it to settle back to the bottom.

I've never followed that line of thinking but i have always remembered the topic of crap inside the stations underground tanks. I would think the establishment would have some type of filter system? What do you guys know about this?

I would think the establishment would have some type of filter system? What do you guys know about this?

Truthfully, I don't know anything about this, but consider: all the fuel that they sell to you goes through their pumps, and they pump an awful lot more fuel than you buy. Hundreds of customers, etc., etc. If they don't have a filtering system, then they're buying trouble for themselves, because eventually, their own pumps are going to get clogged up with that crap.

So even if you cast a cynical eye on the fuel companies (and who wouldn't? :D), I'd imagine it's in their own best interests to have a pretty decent filtering system, which you benefit from as well.

Gents, I hate to report that the bike is back to crap. My buddy got home Tuesday night and the bike was back to running like crap...engine bogging past 1/4 throttle. He said that he really felt that he knew where the problem was and his brother who is a mechanic by trade had some industrial strength carb cleaner he wanted to try.

Well, the front cylinder carb looks brand new but we are back to the same ole problem. We are now checking to see if the front ignition coil is having an intermittent problem. I have the part purchased and it's on a Fed-Ex truck as I type this.

So, if we go back to the survey posted several days ago, I would have to stick with my answer that the problem is probably the muffler bearings!

Hello Jarhead, not sure if I missed a post or two on this but did Tom try running it yet with the muffler's removed? It is a simple experiment to rule out a clogged up muffler.

Gents, I hate to report that the bike is back to crap. My buddy got home Tuesday night and the bike was back to running like crap...engine bogging past 1/4 throttle. He said that he really felt that he knew where the problem was and his brother who is a mechanic by trade had some industrial strength carb cleaner he wanted to try.

Well, the front cylinder carb looks brand new but we are back to the same ole problem. We are now checking to see if the front ignition coil is having an intermittent problem. I have the part purchased and it's on a Fed-Ex truck as I type this.

So, if we go back to the survey posted several days ago, I would have to stick with my answer that the problem is probably the muffler bearings!

Sorry to hear this!
However, I do have a question? After the bike sits overnight or for a few hours. Then to check it out someone gets on it to ride, does the engine do fine, and then all of the sudden it starts to bog down after a minuet or two?

Or does the problem act up immediately? If this is the case, does the engine bog down when giving the engine throttle with no-one on it? Does the engine backfire at all?

Something else you could do is ohm the coils out. Remove the two leads and check one, and then the other to see if they are close to the same? If so, check them again when they are hot to see if they change values.

This might be a dumb arsed question? I know there are some manufacturers that use fuel pumps on carbureted engines, just not sure about yours? If you fuel tank has a shut-off setting, a reserve setting, a off setting, and an on setting, more than likely it doesn't have a carb. If it doesn't have this shut-off valve, check this. Does your bike use any kind of fuel pump? If so, you might want to pull it and make sure the housing isn't cracked. If the housing cracks, the pump will supply fuel, but when more is demanded of it, the pump will respond, but the fuel can't build the pressure it needs, and the fuel dumps back into the tank because of this crack.

Now, if it does have this shut-off valve? Take that apart to be sure there isn't anything restricting fuel flow in this valve. Also as I said earlier, make sure you check this vacuum hose for cracks that go from this valve to the carb. The Shut-off valve will only supply fuel to the carb is when the engine is running, and it's either in the run, or reserve setting. The reason for this is a built in safety by these manufacturers. If the engine isn't running, no fuel is supplied to the carbs. This way if the carb starts to leak fuel while it's sitting, the only fuel that can be lost is what that carb had in it!

And just for the heck of it. Turn the valve to the Reserve setting (if you have this shut-off valve?) It may be the On setting is gummed up and won't supply enough fuel? A different setting may resolve this for you?

It's hard for me to trouble-shoot this thing without being there. What I wouldn't want to do is give you all some crazy idea that leads you all in the wrong direction. This is why I'm asking these questions and trying to figure out what in heck is going on?

Jarhead, I have to hand it to your friends! Not many people out there in the world today would take their time to help someone else when they're in need. You are very fortunate! You have some dedicated friends.......;)

Hello Jarhead, not sure if I missed a post or two on this but did Tom try running it yet with the muffler's removed? It is a simple experiment to rule out a clogged up muffler.

Hey Wart, yeah, Tom ran it without the mufflers on..He then put them back on this past weekend and it ran like a scalded dog. He ran it up to 65 over and over. No problems, ran like new. I couldn't get to it until Tuesday. He called me right before I was going to leave and told me that it had returned to what it was doing before, which was bogging when you reach 1/4 throttle, give or take.

So it would appear the mufflers aren't clogged as it ran the same this past weekend with them on and with them off, which is to say that Tom had it running good.

Silverstreek, we have checked the vacuum lines and the fuel pump. The fuel pump is working like a champ, pumping out the fuel until it gets pressure. When you take the lines off the carb it just keeps pumping.

We are moving our way through the bike so hopefully we'll have something soon. I'm actually hoping that this ignition coil does the trick and I get a call to come pick up my bike this evening!!! Or even tomorrow would do the trick!

I'm learning a lot just following your thread and going thru the clymer manual. I think i posted earlier that we don't have a TPS on the carb'd bikes, oops! Guess i'll pull my head out of my arse now :o

I'm learning a lot just following your thread and going thru the clymer manual. I think i posted earlier that we don't have a TPS on the carb'd bikes, oops! Guess i'll pull my head out of my arse now :o

Sparky, I am hoping that who ever has similar problems in the future can use this as a guide. I hate the repeated let downs, but at the very least it will let people know what to check and what eventually will fix my problem!

I wish i could help you more. Sometimes when i get stumped on electrical issues i'll step back and ask a third persons opinion from another perspective. I've learned in this forum that my experiences with older bikes and vehicles from long ago aren't worth much with all the electronic sensors and gizmos :(

Did you find the tech references that fultilt1 directs people to? Took me a while, I've been looking right over it and not realizing that was what i was looking for http://websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1087.gif

I just posted in another thread about the Clymer manual Chapter 9, starting at page 242explains how to test stator and pickup coil. Maybe check ignition coil too, in the older bikes it was common to see a coil work fine until getting hot at higher rpm's

Maybe check ignition coil too, in the older bikes it was common to see a coil work fine until getting hot at higher rpm's

That's actually what I'm replacing right now, well the part just got delivered to my buddy's house. He'll be putting the part on today, and hopefully I will be going to pick the bike up tomorrow!

Wish me luck again folks, we're heading down another path!

[QUOTE=Jarhead1100;33724]

hopefully I will be going to pick the bike up tomorrow!

Yes, my Marine friend, I sure hope so too! Enough grief is enough grief, huh? Getter back, and Ride Safe:cool:

Thanks Sugar Bear, but alas it wasn't meant to be.

I told a friend I wasn't going to post again until the problem was fixed, but I wanted to give another update, at least for a week.

The ignition coil came yesterday and was swapped last night. It made no difference in the problem. I got an e-mail this morning that there were a few ports that Tom couldn't get to come off that he felt might have some problems. He tried for a few hours and then reported that he couldn't get them off and at this point he suggests to get a new set of carbs.

A quick check for new carbs shows that they cost between $800 and $900. I have been checking e-bay for days and found that they were $150 for the cheapest which came from a bike with 24,000 miles and the rest were higher in price, up to $350.

Today I checked and found a set from a bike that had a total of 2000 miles on them. These carbs looked like they just came of the factory line. The asking price was $175 but I got them to come down to $150!!!!

Needless to say I have bought them and they are on the way, but they won't be here for 7-10 days!!! But hey, knowing my luck it will be the muffler bearings or headlight grease after this!

Jarhead, even though the carbs will take some time getting here, it'll all be worth it in the end!

This trouble you're having reminds me so much of a problem I was involved with on another forum six years ago. This poor guy did everything and still had problems. This person replaced hoses, checked wiring, coils, battery and ground connections. He rebuilt the carb several times, on the last try (only one on a sportster) he finally got the bike going great. A day or so later, the bike crapped out again. Needless to say he was pizzed!

I put my head on the chopping block early in his attempt at fixing his Sportster and said, I believed the problem was the carb. He had checked and done about everything he could possibly do. Although I did try to come up with other ideas, it just coming back to the carb being the problem. I for one hate throwing money after a problem. I spend other peoples money like I would spend my own. I'll try various things until I'm fairly sure I know what the problem is before buying the replacement part. Just to be absolutely sure.

Returning to the Sportster problem. Once once we found someone who could supply a factory new carb for $200.00 was when he finally purchased it. Once he installed it, away he went. I'd say he lost about a month of riding time. In the end as he said, he learned so much about his bike, so he wasn't upset.

As for your bike, the problem most likely is with one carb. But the way things work, the good one if not replaced would most likely start giving you trouble after a short period of time. You are doing the right thing replacing both of them at the same time.

Once your carbs get here, and they're replaced. You'll forget all about how much time it took to get your ride going again. I'm just happy for you that you were able to find two low mileage carbs for a great price.

Let the fun begin!

Thanks Silverstreek. The carbs are coming snail mail so I can't even really track them. All I do know is that they left CA on Friday night, which given the state of our mail service means they MIGHT be here Wed. If so I'll make a point at driving the carbs out to Tom's Wed night to see if we can't get them installed.

Then again, I might try my patience and just give them to him on Thursday. Either way, I'm really hoping to have things working by the weekend.

I don't know what I did to that pain in the ass Karma, but she is kicking my butt!

My buddy put the new carbs on the bike and we're still not running right.

He came in to explain it to me in detail this morning. The bike starts up and in his words "backfires and spits and sputters". He then takes it for a ride and if he gives it gas real slow it acts up until it gets to some magical point and then takes off when the front cylinder seems to kick in. At this point the bike has full power but then it drops down to the "backfires and spits and sputters" when you let off the gas.

We cannot seem to figure out why the bike doesn't idle smooth with both cylinders. It also seems that the bike doesn't fire on the front cylinder consistently.

We have swapped the front Ignition Coil and now put a whole "new" set of carbs on.

Grrrr! I have almost lost the entire riding season because of this freaking problem.

We have used the shop manual and checked all electrical components per their tests. We have done a compression test. We've gone through the shop manual backwards and forwards and can't get the bike running right! HELP!

I don't know what I did to that pain in the ass Karma, but she is kicking my butt!

My buddy put the new carbs on the bike and we're still not running right.

He came in to explain it to me in detail this morning. The bike starts up and in his words "backfires and spits and sputters". He then takes it for a ride and if he gives it gas real slow it acts up until it gets to some magical point and then takes off when the front cylinder seems to kick in. At this point the bike has full power but then it drops down to the "backfires and spits and sputters" when you let off the gas.

We cannot seem to figure out why the bike doesn't idle smooth with both cylinders. It also seems that the bike doesn't fire on the front cylinder consistently.

We have swapped the front Ignition Coil and now put a whole "new" set of carbs on.

Grrrr! I have almost lost the entire riding season because of this freaking problem.

We have used the shop manual and checked all electrical components per their tests. We have done a compression test. We've gone through the shop manual backwards and forwards and can't get the bike running right! HELP!

I have to ask. Did you or anyone else add anything to the bike right before you started having problems? Did you wash it and all of the sudden started having problems? Like adjust valves? Or anything like this? No matter how simple it may seem, if something was done to your bike right before having problems. The story could start right there.

I want to say now we have a little more info, this problem may have something to do with to the ignition? I would also check the things that don't cost you money. Like check to make sure all battery grounds are tight. Look at the stop switch on the handlebars to make sure the contacts are absolutely clean. I'd also check the battery (yes, I've seen batteries cause problems like this) when they start to go bad, they cause a short internally screwing the ignition up. (it's just a thought)

But I swear it sounds like something is killing the ignition source? On GM Vehicles they have a Electronic Control Module in the Distributer. This goes bad, the engine either won't start, or it all of the sudden starts popping and sputtering.

What ignition source controlls the coils? I don't have a Service Manual in front of me, so all I can do is ask questions? Follow the wires from the coils to see where they go. Make sure these wires are tight if they are some type of slide on connection. Also look for a green color in any connection. This indicates a poor connection.

After checking all of these areas. I would check the module or what-ever it is that provides the signal and FIRE to each of the coils. If this is breaking down? This could very well be your problem!

Thinking more.......Could your timing be off? Has he checked that?

This sucks!

IMO: Time to attacke spark plugs, plug wires, coil....I've had vehicles that ran great until they got warmed up then the faulty electronic stuff would quit working properly. Do you have stock ignition control module? I have Dyna3000.

This sucks!

IMO: Time to attacke spark plugs, plug wires, coil....I've had vehicles that ran great until they got warmed up then the faulty electronic stuff would quit working properly. Do you have stock ignition control module? I have Dyna3000.

Sparky, I wasn't sure if Jarheads bike used a ignition control module or not? Plus if it does have something like this, I wasnt sure what the part was called?

He did say he replaced one coil, and even swapped it out to the other cylinder to see if that made a difference? Which it didn't. The next in line I'm assuming is the Ignition Module?

It sucks the problem is still hanging around. I thought sure the carbs being replaced would fix these problems? Spitting and popping doesn't usually indicate a fuel problem unless it's tied in with some other problem. Like a jumped timing chain, bad ignition module, or some other electrical related issue. I guess I missed the spitting and popping part until now?

Sparky, being you sound like you're familiar with this engine. (I'll put you on the spot:rolleyes:) Does this engine have something mechanical or electrical that advances the timing? Or is this all tied in with the Ignition Module? The reason I ask is I was thinking about the part where he said something about slowly giving the engine more throttle, and it came up to speed. Ahhh, but then started spitting and popping again.

And to think. There is no way to check the Ignition Module out to see if that is indeed what the problem is (that I'm aware of?) other than just replace it.

This sucks!

IMO: Time to attacke spark plugs, plug wires, coil....I've had vehicles that ran great until they got warmed up then the faulty electronic stuff would quit working properly. Do you have stock ignition control module? I have Dyna3000.

Sparky, what did this ignition piece cost you? I found a used ignitor ignition box on ebay used. And this thing was $259.00!

Is this what you replaced on yours? Was your aftermarket box (if this is the part you replaced?) that darn expensive?

The cheapest I've seen the one you replaced on yours was for $229.00 with free shipping at Phat. Do the coil wires hook into this box?

Silverstreak...I've been away from my bikes/cars/trucks for a while (been working over seas). Now i'm back and starting to tinker again. I've been re-learning a lot of things by reading thru a lot of threads hear. I have also put my foot in my mouth more than once. I am an electrician by trade.

Anyway, i'm attaching pics. Your numbers look about right as far as the cost goes. I think it's worth it, it's adjustable.:D The coil wires don't touch this box (see pics). This controls your timing. Like i said: it's adjustable.

I'm hoping hoping fultilt1 will jump in and help since he's (unknowingly) helped me pull my head out my arse a couple times :o

We'll figure it out eventually :)

Well my buddy/mechanic is terrible at communications. He went home last night to tinker on the bike and is off today so I won't hear anything for a little bit. Not to mention we have that freaking hurricane Irene honing in on us.

Tom is going to trace all the electrical components and check the grounds. I am a firm believer now that this has to be a floating ground or something to that affect.

Thanks for all the help fellas. I will keep you posted, but not until I either hear from Tom or after the hurricane. This is my 7th or 8th hurricane or typhoon so I'm not looking forward to it.

Well my buddy/mechanic is terrible at communications. He went home last night to tinker on the bike and is off today so I won't hear anything for a little bit. Not to mention we have that freaking hurricane Irene honing in on us.

Tom is going to trace all the electrical components and check the grounds. I am a firm believer now that this has to be a floating ground or something to that affect.

Thanks for all the help fellas. I will keep you posted, but not until I either hear from Tom or after the hurricane. This is my 7th or 8th hurricane or typhoon so I'm not looking forward to it.

Take care mate, have been through two of them, just on the outskirts for both and that was bad enough, and both times on holidays!!!

This sucks!

IMO: Time to attacke spark plugs, plug wires, coil....I've had vehicles that ran great until they got warmed up then the faulty electronic stuff would quit working properly. Do you have stock ignition control module? I have Dyna3000.

I have the stock one Sparky. You don't happen to have your stock one hanging around?

Sparky, what that you know of sends a signal to the coils? I'm still thinking the ignition is loosing it's signal causing this problem. This can also be timing related, which brings me back to this box you say on yours is adjustable. Until I can troubleshoot this and know definitely this box is the cause? I'm not going to recommend Jarhead spending money to replace it.

Do you know if there some electrical diagram I can access for this 2000 V-Star Classic 1100?

Jarhead, what your buddy might be able to do is to hook a timing light up to each coil by itself, and watch the light to see if the light is erratic as he holds the throttle steady in a certain position with the engine running. The light needs to be a steady pulse. If not, the problem is within this area of the ignition.

Do this on each coil. If the light is erratic with the timing light hooked up to the coil wires on one or both coils? This tells you the signal going to the coils is failing. You know it's not the coils because each one has been swapped out with the new one you purchased, and this made no difference. It rules the coils out!

Now look from the coil connections to where ever the coil wires go? Again, check the simple stuff out too. Like the on/off switch on the handlebars. I would move the switch on and off a bunch of times before starting the engine and listening for any difference. It may end up being that simple?

You can also find the two wires that go to the stop/run switch, take them apart at their connections, then hook an ohm meter to the wires going to the switch. A reading of zero ohms is the best connection you can get. If the meter shows 6 ohms or more resistance? Then you have a problem in this circuit. Take it apart and clean it, then check it again.

Silverstreek, I believe someone put a copy of the shop manual somewhere in this thread, but it could be in one of my other threads. PM me your personal e-mail and I can e-mail it to you.

I have the stock one Sparky. You don't happen to have your stock one hanging around?

I have all my original parts. I will have to locate it as my stuff has been moved around while i was away.

I have all my original parts. I will have to locate it as my stuff has been moved around while i was away.

So, would you be willing to part with it, if you have it. Why don't you PM me and we can talk about it there. Thanks for the help!

Folks, I believe we have finally reached the promised land.

Let's run things down here.

1) At the onset when I pulled the throttle more than 1/4 throttle I lost engine response. Seemed to be Carburetor related.

Carbs were rebuilt and replaced with a newer/cleaner set.

Still no go. At this point the front cylinder didn't seem to be firing normally.

2) We replaced the front cylinder ignition coil.

Still no go. By now we have checked the grounds, checked the components according to the shop manual.

3) We decided that it could be the ECM. Thanks to SparkyD I had a used but newer ECM to test with.

Still no go.

Now we get to the fun part. Tom had been keeping a battery charger, but just a 1 amp while he's working on it. He started playing with different electrical components. He put a voltage tester on the battery and it read 12.5. He slowly gave it throttle and the voltage went up but the bike ran like crap. He then put a 10 amp charger on it temporarily and it ran fine as long as the voltage was held at 14.5. The rectifier/regulator don't seem to be doing it's job very well.

When it reached 14.5 volts the front cylinder kicked in and the bike ran normal.

4) We are now on the rectifier/regulator. I have a brand new one on order and it should be here in a couple of days.

I hope this helps anyone with similar problems in the future. These problems aren't always simple. They aren't always straight forward, but I have found the folks on this forum are always here to help!

Thanks everyone and keep the rubber side down!

Most excellent!!! Hope it rectifies the problem...(semper, semper, semper)

Spray it down with Diazinon just to be safe. :D

Wart, like I said in the lounge, if this doesn't fix it I may have to talk to some people I know that take care of things like that. And then the bike might end up in a fiery ball. Maybe.

All joking aside, With what I've laid out, is everyone in agreement that the rectifer/regulator are the issue?

Let me check, hang on................

"signs point to yes"

I gotta tell you these friggin magic 8-balls are AMAZING!

Hey Wart, yeah, Tom ran it without the mufflers on..He then put them back on this past weekend and it ran like a scalded dog. He ran it up to 65 over and over. No problems, ran like new. I couldn't get to it until Tuesday. He called me right before I was going to leave and told me that it had returned to what it was doing before, which was bogging when you reach 1/4 throttle, give or take.

So it would appear the mufflers aren't clogged as it ran the same this past weekend with them on and with them off, which is to say that Tom had it running good.

Silverstreek, we have checked the vacuum lines and the fuel pump. The fuel pump is working like a champ, pumping out the fuel until it gets pressure. When you take the lines off the carb it just keeps pumping.

We are moving our way through the bike so hopefully we'll have something soon. I'm actually hoping that this ignition coil does the trick and I get a call to come pick up my bike this evening!!! Or even tomorrow would do the trick!
there are alot of posts here. did you put new plugs in? i would guess you did if you are going thru all the trouble of getting a coil.
from all my years of hot rodding, mud trucking and ATVing i have found ways to diagnose a problem.
frist do what it takes on your bike to make sure the float bowls are filled, whether that means turning on the ignition so the pump will run and fill the carbs or make sure the petcock is open and let it sit for a while. make sure you are in a place where you can start out and go near wide open right from the start. after doing this is;

1. if you start the bike and take off immediately does it bog or will it run really hard then bog?

if it runs hard then loses power you most likely have crap in the fuel system that keeps blocking the flow thru the needle and seat so that it will run out of gas on the affected cylinder when it pull large volume of gas.

if it is bogging from the start, you may have bad main jet diaphrams or they are sticky. sometimes they work sometimes they stick. this would give you the intermitent problem. on my wifes 650 V-star if i hold the air gun about a 6" to 12" away from the carbs and blow at them, the diaphrams will activate and i can see the slides open up. do this to each carb if one moves and the other doesnt, you just found where to look. maybe there is a chunk of crap in the diaphram vacuum port. if this is blocked the main slide will stay shut and bog will happen. also try to make sure the battery is fully charged as you mentioned the voltage may be low. turn all lights off if possible to keep battery full during the test run. if it runs fine and doesnt bog at all turn all the lights on and drive it to see if it starts to act up as the battery discharges. motors will do things in certain ways if you know how to "see" them. also water in the fuel system can drive you nuts. it will block different things at different times. it can block fuel flow thru needle and seat, block fuel flow thru main jet, idle circuit and so on. then it can get sucked clear and the problem will disappear only to return again. water can be very frustrating in a fuel system. mud trucks and atv's taught me this. also my wife's V-star had the ignition something or other go bad and the front cyl wouldn't run. i thought it was a coil but it turned out something for the one cyl didn't see the crankshaft rotate or something similar to that so it would die out. hope this helps. good luck.

jarhead1100, after all you have put us through (http://websmileys.com/sm/happy/028.gif) i hope we were able to help. Me fingers is crossed!:D

The Brain...early in the thread (and through PM's) jarhead1100 has given us a list of everything that has been replaced. I do believe spark plugs were among the first. This makes me wish we had one of those diagnostic ports that we could plug into and get an immediate answer. Why didn't Yamaha think of that:confused:

This makes me wish we had one of those diagnostic ports that we could plug into and get an immediate answer. Why didn't Yamaha think of that:confused:
Well I bet for the same reason we don't have a fuel gauge or built in clock..makes life to easy.

Well I bet for the same reason we don't have a fuel gauge or built in clock..makes life to easy.

I don't even think the people that work at the stealership know how to ride, or even know anything about bikes. When i told them i wanted the controls for the espresso machine moved to the left grip...they just stared at me like they didn't know what i was talking about http://websmileys.com/sm/aliens/hae36.gif

jarhead1100, after all you have put us through (http://websmileys.com/sm/happy/028.gif) i hope we were able to help. Me fingers is crossed!:D

The Brain...early in the thread (and through PM's) jarhead1100 has given us a list of everything that has been replaced. I do believe spark plugs were among the first. This makes me wish we had one of those diagnostic ports that we could plug into and get an immediate answer. Why didn't Yamaha think of that:confused:

Sparky, I encountered a problem on a Toyota. Even though I had a hand held terminal that I used to find the probelm, I still ended up troubleshooting it and fixing it myself. I got bogus info from this diagnostic tool which threw me off in the opposite direction for about two weeks.

I can't complain because it made me more knowledgeable. The thing about this 1100 is how screwey the problem is. I just wish I had it here at my shop to look at because I just hate looking for problems over the internet. All we can do is offer suggestions which may or may not fix the problem. And I know as a mechanic it gets a little frustrating when all of these suggestions come in from people who you don't even know.

As I have learned in the past, one of these suggestions may put the finger on the problem. It's just getting past all of the other suggestions first. After a lot of thought about this problem that is screeming FIX ME! I did come up with another idea (or suggestion:eek:)

I'm beginning to go back to the beginning where I thought it could be a vacuum leak. Not knowing how these carbs mount to the engine? Could it be possible for an O-Ring, seal or gasket on the front carb to have a vacuum leak? Easy enough to check out. Take a can of carb cleaner and spray it around the seal/gasketed area to see if the engine dies or speeds up? If this happens, there is a seal/gasket failure. I have found a problem such as this on a Suzuki I was working on. It ended up being a bad O-Ring to the mount that went directly to the head of the engine itself.

As fas as the battery and charging system goes, it is acting exactly like it should. The battery should read (if it's good) 12-1/2 volts, and 14-1/2 volts with throttle. The rectifier if bad would not charge at DC Voltage. I'd be a little confused if this were the problem? But crazier things have happened before, so never rule anything out!

Now, the reason I say a vacuum leak is because the engine seems to want to run correctly after reaching a certain RPM. If there is a vacuum leak around the front carb? The carb might not be working correctly until the engine builds up enough vacuum due to reaching a certain RPM to over-come the vacuum loss at slower RPM's.

I might have been thinking this is a carb and electrical issue, when it was a simple vacuum problem! In other words, I may have made a simple situation more complicated?

Anyone else think the same or differently?

I feel you silverstreak. When i do troubleshooting on buildings (120V/208V/240V/277V/480 etc. etc.) sometimes when i get stumped it's nice to have another electrician take a look. He/she may repeat the things i looked at and they might think of something that eluded me. An extra set of eyes (brains) can be helpful and sometimes we take the risk that the offered help may lead us in the wrong direction. I wouldn't do that deliberately and i hope nobody else would either.

Whew...i need a nap now...:)

Sparky, I know the feeling! I spent 26 years in the Elevator Business troubleshooting various kinds of equipment. If I had to do this over the phone (which I've done, but it's very hard). If I had to try and troubleshoot a problem with some elevator on a forum? I don't know exactly how accurate I'd be? But I'd try!

For me personally, troubleshooting is much easier when I am there to see, hear, and touch what I'm working on. As new eyes go, I couldn't agree with you more when it comes to getting a new set of eyes on a problem. We get so involved with a problem we get to a point we don't see the obvious. That new set of eyes on the problem is all it may take to get the equipment back and running for the customer or a friend.

A Friend in need, is a Friend indeed!;)

Maybe you have already done so but before you assume and order a new rectifier you should check the following in this order:

1. Fully charge your battery and make sure it maintains 12.6 V or more after at least a 2 hour period of time after the charge.
2. Install the battery with clean terminals and tighten securely.
3. Connect a quality digital voltmeter and run the engine at idle speed. It should indicate 13 + volts at approx. 1100 rpm.
4. Raise the rpm above 2500 rpm and verify a reading between 14 to 14.5 volts. If it's lower raise to a higher rpm to see if it will exceed 14 volts. It's critical the battery be in healthy condition or even a good charging system will not break through its internal barrier to exceed 14 volts.
5. If voltage is below this spec. you need to check the only 2 components that provide power to the battery. The STATOR and the RECTIFIER.
6. Locate and disconnect the white plastic 3 wire connecter from the stator, under the tank, seat or plastic side covers. You're going to check it for continuity and grounds.
7. Connect an ohmmeter (x 1 scale) to the stator side of the connecter. Firmly touch one of your probes to one of the pins and with the other probe touch each of the other 2 pins one at a time and note the reading on the meter. It should indicate ZERO resistance or a maximum of 0.56 ohm. Now firmly touch the second pin you touched and check the other 2 pins. Confirm there is continuity between all 3 pin combinations. If any of the pins do not provide full continuity you need to replace the stator.
8. To check for grounds firmly attach one of the probes to one of the cylinder fins. Now touch each of the 3 pins on the connecter one at a time and confirm the reading. There should be NO CONTINUITY. If any one of them has continuity the stator has been shorted and needs replacement. If it fails either one of these tests it won't deliver AC power to the rectifier. If the stator passed both tests then you can be sure the rectifier is faulty and should be replaced. There is no static electrical test for the rectifier to determine its quality. Its health is determined by the above test sequence. IE, low voltage above 2500 rpm + confirmation that the stator is good = faulty regulator/rectifier.
9. Never rule out a poor connection between all of these components. It's unlikely but check for excessive dirt, corrosion and less than fully connected terminals.
10. While you're in that area with an ohmmeter, check the quality of the pickup coil. This has nothing to do with the charging system but does control the timed pulse for your secondary coils. It's a simple check. Locate the 2 wire plastic connecter that parallels the 3 wire stator wires exiting the left engine side cover. It should be very close to the stator connecter. Disconnect it and confirm a GRAY and BLACK wire. Connect the ohmmeter (x 1 scale) to each of these pins simultaneously and confirm a reading of 210 ohms, plus or minus 10%, depending on ambient temperature, (189 - 231 ohms). A pickup coil can check out good when cold but if weak can fail at high engine temperatures due to a large increase in resistance. At this point you can lose spark at one or both cylinders, Quite often after it's cooled down the resistance will drop between acceptable levels again, making it difficult to catch unless you check it when it's hot.
Hope this all helps. I'll send you a PM soon with some spec info.

The battery was charged completely. It was put on a charger and then left on a tender while it wasn't being worked on. The battery will show 13 volts, even when given throttle. Due to the holiday and apparently IRENE, the rectifier hasn't even shipped yet.

I appreciate all the help and hope to have some type of news for you in a few days, but like I said, that's been tough. The good news is that my buddy is off this week and should be able to work on it pretty steady. The even better news is that we are scheduled to have rain almost all week so it's not like I'm missing too much riding weather.

Ok, what part of expedited shipping did the company not understand. I purchased the new rectifier/regulator exactly one week ago. I paid an extra $15 dollars for shipping only to have it set to arrive today.

Well, we are still having a monsoon here so I'm not missing any riding time. It's hard enough getting around in a cage. So in the span of a few weeks we've had an earthquake, a hurricane, and now flooding. Can someone tell me when the fourth horseman is supposed to arrive?

Well, about 7 days to the minute the new rectifier was delivered to my buddy's door step. It's taking everything I have not to leave work and carry him out to his work shop.

I will work on my patience and hope to have some info for you all soon! This is staring to turn into one of those old soap operas. Hmmmmmm, Days of Your V-Star, V-Star Hospital, The V-Star and The Restless?

Battle-STAR-Galactica maybe? Or STAR Wars Episode III :D

V-Star is Born.....?

No wait, anything with Sharon Stone or Angilina Jolie :p

No wait, anything with Sharon Stone or Angilina Jolie :p

Dancing with the V-Stars?:D

Well, I got a message from my buddy Tom last night saying the bike is running good, but he needs to run it around the block a few times to make sure. The problem is that here in Maryland, we have had nothing but rain for about a week!

Road closures are very common and it doesn't look like it will clear up until tomorrow!

So, with all that being said, it could be a couple more days.

Hey Jarhead1100:D I would give your left nut for some of the rain:eek: O yes I would:cool::cool:

Hey Jarhead1100:D I would give your left nut for some of the rain:eek: O yes I would:cool::cool:

Sorry Dan, I lost my left nut in a bet a long time ago when I bet someone that I could do a backflip:eek::eek:! There might have been liquor involved and I believe someone said, "Hey guys, watch this!".

Hell, I could send the rain by the truck load. We have road closures all over the place, swollen creeks and rivers everywhere. A buddy was supposed to run a 5k and it was cancelled. They were supposed to start and finish on an island in the middle of the river, but the island was under flood waters :eek:

So, with all that being said, it could be a couple more days.

Cheer up! There's another TD headed your way!:rolleyes:

An experienced all weather night fighter like yourself should have no problem riding in the rain:D:D:D

And do you remember the African king who was deposed because he allowed over-hunting and all the wildlife his people needed for food was destroyed?

First time a reign has been called because of the game...:)

All the Navy guys got the square needle in the left nut during boot camp, so you might want to go after the right one.......

Picked the old girl up yesterday, 40 mile ride home and she ran like a scalded dog! I hit 90mph on the beltway without realizing I was going that fast. Awesome throttle response!!!

I want to thank EVERYONE who has chipped in to help me with this problem and chipped in with their thoughts. This has been a long road, but the end result was AWESOME...I think I'll go post some thoughts in the daily ride thread.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I hit 90mph on the beltway without realizing I was going that fast.


I see you're still using the speedometer Stratowart loaned you with the special "blue bike" X3 calibration...:D

Congratulations Grunt. I want to be the first to tell you that his has been a lot harder on us than it has on you:D:D:D

But seriously Chas....

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo88/fripuppy/images.jpg

Great news, Jarhead! I haven't had any expertise to lend and try to help you out, but I've been following your saga, and I'm glad to hear you're back on the road.

Shiny side up, and enjoy what's left of the riding season.

Glad to here you got it working. Weird how the reg/rectifier effected the bike in that manner, bright side tho you know ya got clean carbs :)

Glad to here you got it working. Weird how the reg/rectifier effected the bike in that manner, bright side tho you know ya got clean carbs :)

+1 http://websmileys.com/sm/happy/057.gif

Glad to here the good news