Hello everybody, I have a 2000 V-Star 650 Classic that is giving nothing but headaches and some of the testing procedures in the manual are vague at best, or they dont seem like a complete test.

slowly but surely this bike has lost power and now does not want to run above idle without a fight, the bike was purchased used and is a california model. The previous owner removed the emissions canister and capped the lines.

since the bikes history is unknown we started with the basic tune up.

through trial and error, bad testing procedures, and bad advice we have had some costly and unneccessary repairs with no results other than more frustration..... this has led to replacement of the following, starting with good clean fuel, the fuel filter, air filter, oil filter and oil, spark plugs, ignition coils, mag pick up, TPS, and have run b-12 through the carbs, also disassembled and cleaned them. also performed a cylinder leakage test so valves, rings not an issue. everybody seems to refer back to the carbs, maybe i should clean them again....

we are stumped and very frustrated!!! my current question is about the fuel pump but welcome ANY advice from fellow owners....

heres the deal... the fuel pump test in the book says basically apply battery power to the pump ... if it pumps fuel its good... Really? are you kidding me? we took the test a little farther to see how long it ran, suction side is connected to fuel tank, with valve on main, discharge side is to a gas can. it seems it has a cycle, it runs for about 7 seconds and shuts off but does not restart.... i would assume that it is supposed to stay running or at least cycle on when it senses low pressure but still nothing....

Mr B17,

Does seem as if the fuel pump should continue to run. But don't know.

It does sound like cummed up carbs. But hard to say. The cleaner will only work if the carbs are not compleatly blocked. It won't hurt to try again. I like Seafoam. Buy it at Wallmart, Tractor supply, and lots of Auto parts store. Seems to work well on carbs.

There is a test called the choke test. Basiclly put the choke half on while riding. If the problem gets better you are starved for gas. If it gets worse you are getting too much gas. No change I guess you are wrong track.

See if you see anything to help here.

http://650ccnd.com/

Dave

thanks dave, ive been there and signed up earlier today but couldnt find anybody to chat with.... getting the same results here, nobody wants to talk.... maybe its because im new i dont know......

thanks dave, ive been there and signed up earlier today but couldnt find anybody to chat with.... getting the same results here, nobody wants to talk.... maybe its because im new i dont know......

Nah,my friend, that is not it at all, folks on this 4m are not that way:) You got a tough one there! If any of the boys had a straight up answer, they would say so!

Just an off base idea here, but on my old 750 there are screens in the bottom of the tank(don't know if all do) attached to the carb tubes, at the age of your bike and not knowing the history, that could be a maybe? At least worth taking a look at. Seems nothing else is working, huh? Ride Safe:cool:

Thanks Sugar Bear, my 750 Magna has the same filter in the tank. its a good thought but i dont think thats the problem on the Vstar 650. there is plenty of fuel flow with the output line from the pump disconnected and running into a can, and seems to have plenty of pressure for a carbed bike, but why does the pump stop running...... and not restart? is it supposed to get a signal from someplace... its like its going through the priming run prior to startup then nothing......

Remember too that it's the weekend. A lot of people are out riding. I got a short ride in. Give it time and somebody will chime in with some ideas.

I recommend trying what Sugar Bear & linerdave are saying and get back to us and let us know which one of them was right so we can give a wedgy to the one that was wrong http://websmileys.com/sm/happy/1055.gif

Some of the advise you have been given is good. I was reading threw your post and thought right away coils..then I saw you have replaced them. I am thinking that the fuel pump does not need to stay on..but just keep some pressure there as gravity should do the trick. I am leaning towards the carbs a small blockage there or a leak at the boot for the carb.

Thanks Dave,

Thats true, maybe the guys/gals with the knowledge about this kinda issue are riding, its got to be something we've overlooked, or incredibly stupid .... like the ignition switch is off... I'll check the screen, it does run better with the choke out but still wont move under its own power..... this thing has had this issue since we got it... I know it can be fixed but its very elusive.... hmmm

short of finding better specs on the correct fuel pump operation im pretty sure i am going to tear the carbs apart again and clean them again, change the soft parts too...

Aide,

the boots have surface cracks on the outside but seem intact, the clamps seem fine too, out of sheer desperation we ordered new boots and o-rings. im still mystified about that fuel pump... im used to gravity fed carbs on bikes... why put it on there unless there was a need for higher fuel flow rates.....

When you had the carbs apart the first time did you check that all the jets were clear? Is the valve in the float bowl in correctly? Because you said 'it gradually lost power' i am thinking crud in your fuel has clogged your system. Sounds like you've gone through everything except dissassembling the carbs. That would be my next step.

Some test for a leak under the carbs by spraying WD40 or like on the surfaces while the bike runs. If you spray on a leak the engine speed will change.

Dave

Aide,

the boots have surface cracks on the outside but seem intact, the clamps seem fine too, out of sheer desperation we ordered new boots and o-rings. im still mystified about that fuel pump... im used to gravity fed carbs on bikes... why put it on there unless there was a need for higher fuel flow rates.....

There is a need for higher flow rate. Back when the largest of street bikes was stroker 500cc & 650cc a gravity fed system was fine. Now we got bigger motors relying on the same size fuel line for more fuel ......soooo ......let's use a pump:eek:

Some test for a leak under the carbs by spraying WD40 or like on the surfaces while the bike runs. If you spray on a leak the engine speed will change.

Dave

linerdave, i have always used (and still do) use a spray bottle with water when testing for leaks. There's a few people here that use WD40, is there a benefit to using WD40 over water?

Checking the downloaded manual I have for the 1100 I see there is a fuel pump relay..so that tells me that the operation of not being on continuous would be normal. I see they also give some checks to do with a multimeter.

Propane as long as no ignition leak is there is a nice dry way to look for crab boot leak.

we disassembled, inspected and cleaned everything.... but might have missed something, im still cunfused as to why i need a fuel pump that only runs for 7 seconds and never restarts on a motorcycle that has traditionally had gravity fed carbs, but am leaning towards me missing something in the carbs someplace..... im no flawless expert, but i usually make it at least run better... not this time lol... at least not yet!!!

all great ideas, been there done that, propane is always a good fuel source... its like crack cocaine to an engine lol... I dont see why water in a spray bottle wouldnt work...seems SparkyD has good luck with it... never thought of using it tho.... ill have to try it, coould be that i just learned something new :-)

does the book mention how often the pump cycles?

Read through the entire thread "Engine bogs past 1/4 throttle". You have the same problem and he seems to have resolved the issue. Good luck and keep us informed.

Thanks, Cant hurt to clean them again.... i'll keep you posted on what we find :-)

Propane as long as no ignition leak is there is a nice dry way to look for crab boot leak.

crabs wear boots? :D

crabs wear boots? :D

I was wondering if anyone would catch that :rolleyes: :D

Ok folks i'm back.... the carbs have been cleaned and cleaned again, then cleaned again just for good measure... including Sea Foam...but the bike still wont go above idle like it should. It will build slowly and attempt to run normally if you go easy, or give it a momentary boost by covering the top of either carb with your hand. but to no avail it just wont perform....

everything in the carbs look good, we even bumprd the float levels up to the reference line on the bowl... i know its too high but it was a shot in the dark, and it didnt change SH_t.

Running the choke didnt change anything either, The Fuel pump runs its priming cycle, then starts again when the engine is running so its fine!

This thing screams that its a fuel issue but I cant find the problem.... its driving me insane ive gone back to square one and started the basics, fuel, spark etc.... plugs, coils, TPS, fuel filter, air filter, are all new and within specs.

Everything has been checked and rechecked.... I am so frustrated and confused that im ready to leave this thing in a high theft area and walk away.... but my Girlfriend would be mad lol. What am I missing?

Check accelerator pump

Sorry I didn't read all of this.. but are both the screws still in the bottom of your gas cap? If not maybe one is stuck in the petcock?

Check accelerator pump

Do you mean the starter pump as the book calls it or the small diaphram? I e managed to get it to easits way up to about 1/4 throttle.... but ... not very responsive.

Sorry I didn't read all of this.. but are both the screws still in the bottom of your gas cap? If not maybe one is stuck in the petcock?

I didn't check.... but I will. Fuel pump works good on Primer circuit and engine running. This is with fuel supply in water bottle and tank off so I can play with carbs.

ok ladies and gentlemen the bike is still giving me a headache, there have been many false leads (not from you guys) that I am second guessing myself aboout everything. you could tell me that a battery is actually AC not DC and I might believe you!

I did manage to get the carbs running better but now I have a timing issue i.e. backfiring through the carbs (above Idle). TPS is fine... been checked 100 times. my issue is the timing marks. they seem about half a tooth off. honestly I havent seen this before, its usually dead nuts, or a whole tooth off, the chains are like new,(so I dont see a wear issue) theres only 12,000 miles on the bike.

as I said im second guessing everything, has anybody else seen this? and what did you do to fix it?

I put pix in my profile.

I know the manual for the 1100 says don't worry about the marks if they are 1/2 tooth off. Its no beg deal. I would think they probably say the same for the 650.

Have you been following a thread called 'engine bogs past 1/4 throttle'? Jarhead1100 went through all of this and even replaced his carbs. Last word was it turned out to be a rectifier issue, so don't forget to test that too.

This manual is vague and doesn't mention anything other than taking slack out of the exhaust side of the chain. The cylmer manual shows the marks being offset. But im comfy with your book saying don't worry.
Yes I've been following it, but I can't think of anything different to check on his bike either..... I haven't checked the regulator on this one, I will tho. Thanks sparkyd.

Have you gotten to the bottom of your problem? I sent you a private message with a troubleshooting sequence that should make it easier for you to diagnose.