Trail Braking - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By Highwayman
  • 2 Post By lesblank
  • 1 Post By KCW
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Highwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 360
Garage
Is every we think we know about corning wrong? Check out this video. There are strong arguments for why braking in a corner may actually save you from a spill.
https://youtu.be/gPE67XqGsV4
KCW likes this.

For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here’s a tip: why not add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?
Highwayman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 04:36 PM
KCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,967
Garage
Quote:
Is every we think we know about corning wrong?
well.. no trail braking is a racing technique that is used on a track

the guy is saying things like "what if you go into a corner you are not familiar with and you judged it wrong and its tighter than you thought..." and a few other variations on that hypothetical

the answer is: you are riding beyond your skill level and you need to learn to judge a corner better before you fly into it and realize you are going too fast.

The reason trail braking is a track technique is because riders who race get to the track a week early, and ride the track hundreds of times, pushing themselves faster and faster in every curve, braking later and later, so they are riding around every curve at the very limit of traction, on the edge of dropping the bike... because they are racing, and if you are not going as fast as possible, someone will pass you and you lose.

The limit of how fast you can take any random curve is the limit of the friction of the tires on the pavement. If you trail brake into the turn you do load up the front tire, but the fact remains: you have about 1g max of friction on the road, if you are using part of that braking to load up the front tire, you cannot use it to keep the bike from sliding out sideways. And if you are shifting the weight of the bike to the front tire using the front brake, so the front tire has more downward force, then you are unloading the rear tire, and run the risk of IT losing enough downward force so that it breaks lose, and whips around on you. This is especially a risk if there is a bit of a bump in the road in the curve, having the back come around.

And if you are riding on unfamiliar roads taking the corners at the limits of traction, its just a matter of time before you are in the guard rail or in the woods, or in to the side of a pickup truck backing out of a driveway 3/4 thru the blind curve. Then you will have the joy of knowing you crashed going as fast as possible.

BTW, the shot of the guy about a minute in locking up his rear tire and hitting the guard rail, is an excellent demonstration that, when you lock up the rear tire you MUST hold it locked until the bike comes to a stop. If you let off the rear bike the rear tire snaps back in and throws you off the bike. I watched it several times pausing the video frame by frame, and you can see the spokes on the rear tire stop, and just before he is thrown off they start rotating again. He was not steering into the skid, he let off the rear brake and it threw him off, and into the guard rail.

Last edited by KCW; 05-11-2019 at 04:44 PM.
KCW is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Highwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 360
Garage
This MSF instructor explains instances in which he does apply the trail braking technique.
https://youtu.be/hl2hRMpWEz8

For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here’s a tip: why not add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?
Highwayman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 06:03 PM
Moderator
 
lesblank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,768
Garage
KCW, I agree and disagree with you. You should judge the corner better so you are not riding beyond your skill set. It's much easier and safer to enter the corner slow and increase speed if you want to. With that said trail braking does allow a bike to corner smoother with better control. I road raced bikes for years and used trail braking 100% of the time. That was a long time ago but still enjoy a brisk corner from time to time. When I ride solo on the road now I trail brake more than I don't. The bike just corners easier and allows for mid corner correction if needed. The issue is most people will attempt to trail brake improperly. You are not using the brake for slowing down but to keep a load on the suspension. The old saying "getting up on the bars" is actually loading your weight on the front suspension to accomplish the same thing. I learned to trail brake on a track and carried over the use onto the street. I would find it difficult to master trail braking on the street without track time. When I'm two up with the wife I do not trail break, I'm cruising and smelling the roses.
fireteacher and Cliffieg like this.

2001 Vstar 1100 Classic (sold), Cobra Slash Cut full exhaust, Dropped 1 inch with lowering links, ORK, 4.5 inch handlebar risers, Ultimate passenger seat, Passenger pegs moved forward 4 inches, Handlebar clock, KN air filter, Viking saddlebags, Additional rear lighting
Loose nut "me" behind the bars
2006 Harley Electra Glide Ultra Classic

https://sites.google.com/site/vstar1100kb/home
lesblank is online now  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 08:53 AM
KCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,967
Garage
the video by Kevin (the MSF instructor) was a bit odd, there is a comment on the youtube page that explains why:

"I didn't like your example of when to use this to make that right turn - allowing another driver to push you into making a maneuver at a speed that you're not happy with is not justification for doing it - slowing earlier to control the following traffic would work better here and be safer particularly if the bend had a loose surface that you can't see on the approach..."

One of the things I took away from the MSF course is to control the risks you are exposed to by choosing where and when you ride. I intentionally do not take the fastest route to work and back, to avoid more complex traffic situations. Needing to take a right hand intersection corner in 55mph traffic is certainly one of those risks to avoid.

I do have a couple corners at intersections that I can cut short on the shoulder and take pretty fast, but I know there could be sand or gravel or dirt... on the road, so even though Im riding the same streets every day, like a racer practicing on a the same track everyday, and I know every dip and bump and pot hole without even thinking about it, I still ride defensively and do not ride faster than I can see ahead.
YammyV likes this.
KCW is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Highwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 360
Garage
I do agree with that. I thought turning from a 60-70 mph freeway into a sharp right turn was an odd example.

For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here’s a tip: why not add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?
Highwayman is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 01:45 PM
Super Moderator
 
bevo1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 12,840
here is some previous conversation on this forum that sheds more light on the subject:
https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...l-braking.html

https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...n-turns-2.html

i disagree that trail braking should be relegated to the track. when done properly, it helps you navigate turns more efficiently and actually improves your grip on the road. it is an advanced technique and one that i think should only be practiced while on very familiar roads and turns with little traffic.

on a steel horse I ride
i create motorcycle videos. check them out here

bevo1981 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What’s The Difference Between Rake And Trail? Motorcycle.com StarBikeForums News 4 06-06-2018 03:42 PM
Trail Braking? Larry Gude General Bike Talk 12 02-28-2015 04:48 PM
Anyone ridding the Trail of Tears ride out of Chattanooga sept.15? BrianS U.S. Southeast (NC, SC, KY, TN, GA, AL, MS, FL) 1 08-17-2012 09:40 AM
Braking bad? Caliente Pocket General Bike Talk 15 08-08-2011 12:46 PM
The Outlaw Trail Springer U.S. Mid Central (NE, KS, IA, MO, WY, CO) 1 03-06-2011 09:22 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome