Word Of Caution - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
 8Likes
  • 1 Post By crossbowme
  • 3 Post By crossbowme
  • 1 Post By KCW
  • 2 Post By Bucfan11
  • 1 Post By 750 Chris
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium
 
crossbowme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: China, Maine
Posts: 33
Word Of Caution

Just had something weird happen to my TC. Took it to a local MC shop for an oil change. The bay they put it in was surrounded with all kinds of electrical equipment. When they were done, they tried to start the bike with no luck (I check them to make sure they were using the proper procedure). After hours on the phone with Yamaha (who was less than helpful) I had them push the bike outside away from everything and let it set for about .5 hours. I then tried to start it and it fired righ up. I think all the electrical sources interfered with the fob's signal.

Don't know if anyone else has had this problem.
KCW likes this.

2018 Venture Transcontinental (620 miles)
1975 Goldwing (16546 miles)
1974 Kawasaki Z1 (only God knows)
crossbowme is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 05:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Fredrickson, Washington
Posts: 75
So you're thinking it was some inadvertent ECM? LOL

This is an interesting point. I wonder if it has a ring of truth to it....

750 Chris Here in this forum
750 Chris In VRA forum
Vn750Guy** In vulcanforums
750 Guy In VROC forum
Chris and Shim In vn750.com forum
Long retired USAF AMMO troop (74 to 95)
Fully retired now
2005 Yamaha Virago 250
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
750 Chris is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 07:10 PM
KCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,967
Garage
what kind of equipment?

there are some weird things with key fobs - if you have two on the same key chain (or two of the same key with the embedded chip) sometimes a vehicle wont start

or maybe they had several other bikes nearby with the keyfobs on them?

ElectroMagnetic Interference (EMI or EMC) is a real thing. Engineers have to go to great lengths sometimes to make sure a new electronic device is not overly susceptible to interference from other electronics, and that it is not transmitting energy that will screw up other equipment.

BTW, do you know why older microwave ovens were a problem for people with pacemakers? On most of the older ones, if you opened the door while it was cooking food, it took a second for the microwave circuit to shut down, so when you opened the door you flooded the room (and yourself) with 1000W of microwave energy for a second.
KCW is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 07:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Bucfan11's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 346
They tried to start it? Does that mean it cranked but would not start? Lights would come on when the switch was turned?

Rob - 18 Raspberry SVTC, 08 Pearl White Navi Goldwing
Bucfan11 is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium
 
crossbowme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: China, Maine
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucfan11 View Post
They tried to start it? Does that mean it cranked but would not start? Lights would come on when the switch was turned?
No, nothing. Once you activated the fob and push the button in, you could rotate the switch but nothing would happen. Once outside, the same procedure would allow you to start the bike (like it is supposed to). i don't know what caused it but I do know once it was clear of all the electronics it worked.
lesblank, KCW and Bucfan11 like this.

2018 Venture Transcontinental (620 miles)
1975 Goldwing (16546 miles)
1974 Kawasaki Z1 (only God knows)
crossbowme is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 09:35 PM
KCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,967
Garage
This is an interesting thread, I googled around a bit to see what could block or mask a key fob from working.

Car thieves are using jammers happily supplied by china, to jam key fobs. You pull your car into the gas station and run in to get something, pushing the button to lock the door. If the jammer is on the door does not lock. They turn the jammer off, get in your car and take your stuff.

With some cars if you are still close enough the car will start up, and they drive off with your car.

So back to the case in point, its possible someone had one of these key fob jammers at the bike shop, hoping to get into someones car that had been prevented from engaging the door lock, or had some other plan in mind.

Personally Ive never liked key fobs or car security systems. I would rather lock the door by pushing the button as I get out, and open it with a key, than to set an alarm that disables the engine. If the $3 battery in the fob goes dead, or you drop it in a puddle, now your perfectly fine vehicle will not start and you are stranded, because the weakest link failed.

I tell people I dont think its necessary to disturb the electromagnetic ionosphere and beam radio energy out into the universe, just to open my car door.

Everything should be as simple as possible.
moetrain likes this.
KCW is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 06:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Bucfan11's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCW View Post
This is an interesting thread, I googled around a bit to see what could block or mask a key fob from working.



Car thieves are using jammers happily supplied by china, to jam key fobs. You pull your car into the gas station and run in to get something, pushing the button to lock the door. If the jammer is on the door does not lock. They turn the jammer off, get in your car and take your stuff.



With some cars if you are still close enough the car will start up, and they drive off with your car.



So back to the case in point, its possible someone had one of these key fob jammers at the bike shop, hoping to get into someones car that had been prevented from engaging the door lock, or had some other plan in mind.



Personally Ive never liked key fobs or car security systems. I would rather lock the door by pushing the button as I get out, and open it with a key, than to set an alarm that disables the engine. If the $3 battery in the fob goes dead, or you drop it in a puddle, now your perfectly fine vehicle will not start and you are stranded, because the weakest link failed.



I tell people I dont think its necessary to disturb the electromagnetic ionosphere and beam radio energy out into the universe, just to open my car door.



Everything should be as simple as possible.
While I agree with you, you should practice and learn the emergency start process at home instead of trying to figure it out on the side of the road. It is simple, easy and quick.

https://youtu.be/nBb-3d3Ypcc

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
crossbowme and KCW like this.

Rob - 18 Raspberry SVTC, 08 Pearl White Navi Goldwing

Last edited by Bucfan11; 05-01-2019 at 06:41 AM.
Bucfan11 is offline  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 08:01 AM
KCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,967
Garage
its great that yamaha put that on these bikes

some vehicles do not have an emergency start procedure
KCW is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 10:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Fredrickson, Washington
Posts: 75
I was making a joke about ECM since crossbowme's pic is of a military chopper I used the military term of ECM (Electronic Counter Measure), not to be confused with KCW's mention of EMC. ECM is intentional whereas any EMC in this context would be unintentional.

Still, the possible conflict of interference from the electronic-rich environment within the bay is interesting and simply begs for experimentation. If nothing else the motorcycle shop needs to know the deal.

I'd like to take the bike back and see if it does it again as well as any other bike with a key fob.

Very good video about emergency starting. I did not know that.
KCW likes this.

750 Chris Here in this forum
750 Chris In VRA forum
Vn750Guy** In vulcanforums
750 Guy In VROC forum
Chris and Shim In vn750.com forum
Long retired USAF AMMO troop (74 to 95)
Fully retired now
2005 Yamaha Virago 250
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
750 Chris is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 12:34 PM
KCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,967
Garage
I missed the ECM, crossbow was talking about interference and thats what my mind saw in your post too

so... what he needs is a ECCM antijam keybob that will work in a hostile environment...

dragging a spectrum analyzer and UHF antenna into the shop's bay would show you what frequencies are bouncing around in there

wonder if this happens to them frequently, or maybe most bikes dont have keyfobs?
KCW is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The dark side of 'Dark Siding'.....caution.... YamahaParExcellence Venture/Eluder 37 03-20-2019 08:17 PM
Missing 15 yr. Old boy. Spread the word. Scrumdown The Lounge 8 11-14-2018 07:03 PM
Attaching word documents on PM's Corsair Starbikeforums Help Desk 4 07-25-2014 08:28 PM
Grease is the word... kickstand Oil and Lubrication 8 09-20-2011 09:22 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome