Maxima v-twin full synthetic - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Maxima v-twin full synthetic

Does anyone have any thoughts on this brand of oil for the yami? At 600 I put in the yamalube 15w50 full syn. I see a lot of comments on royal purple and redline. I know maxima was popular when I was running motocross so just curious if anyone has had any experience with it in cruisers.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 10:13 AM
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Duck, i am guessing you will be bombarded by answers. Seems like everyone their opinion on what to use. I look at it if you use any brand of oil and have no failures you have a winner.

I ain't lost until the tank is empty!
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 12:28 PM
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It will be fine. I have used it on my sons MX bike too. I run Valvoline 20-50 on my SVTC. Coming up on 30k miles with no issues.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamsorre125 View Post
Does anyone have any thoughts on this brand of oil for the yami? At 600 I put in the yamalube 15w50 full syn. I see a lot of comments on royal purple and redline. I know maxima was popular when I was running motocross so just curious if anyone has had any experience with it in cruisers.
Send in about four oil samples running the normal change cycle for each sample to a lab like Blackstone or Dyson, there are others, that way you can get a baseline on how your engine is really wearing.

Many post they have no problems with brand so and so oil but in reality they have no clue if they are wearing the engine more than the universal averages or if they are wearing the same as the universal averages or if they are out preforming the universal averages with less wear.

I run Redline oil in all my internal combustion engines, my 2016 Honda Civic 1.5 Turbo Redline 0w-20, 2016 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Redline 0w-40, 2018 Yamaha Star Venture V-Twin Redline 10w-40 and even my 2004 John Deere L130 tractor Redline 10w-30.

I have Blackstone oil reports to back up how well Redline works, here is a copy of my last oil report for my Yamaha Star Venture, the Sample date 7/12/18 was Yamalube 15w-50 full synthetic, the other samples 8/27/18, 11/3/18 and 2/10/19 were all Redline 10w-40 synthetic motorcycle oil and as you can see my wear numbers using the Redline are much better than Yamalube 15w-50 full synthetic and are even better than the universal averages overall for this series of V-Twin engine from Yamaha.

Hard to argue against documented proof.
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Last edited by American; 10-06-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 03:01 PM
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While I know there have been documented engine failure on this particular engine, most modern engines have very, very few oil related failures. Modern oil is also very good. You can go to Bob is the oil guy .com and check out all kinds of various Blackstone Lab reports. Lots of good oils to choose from.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 04:35 AM
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Bob is the oil guy forum is not the forum it used to be. They have been taken over by the liberal crowd and now everything is politically correct. Example they are now more like a cult and you had better be running the latest API spec or else.

Here is an example, when the API started requiring the oil companies to use less ZDDP (Phosphorus and zinc) older flat tappet style cam engines started having cam and lifter failure.

Now remember that according to the API each new spec is supposed to be backwards compatible but that does not always work out so well and when you are one of the ones who suffers a cam/lifter failure you are also the one stuck paying the bill to rebuild the engine.

Not every flat tappet cam/lifter style engine will fail with reduced ZDDP, but many will fail so you are pretty much flipping a coin and taking a chance, or you can source an oil that still contains a minimum of 1200 PPM (Parts Per Million) of ZDDP and not have to worry is your flat tappet cam/lifter going to fail at some point or will you be one of the lucky ones.

The reason I bring this up is because the Yamaha V-Twin in several Yamaha models including the new Star Venture and Eluder use a flat tappet style cam and lifter. There have been some documented cases of cam/lifter failure on this engine.

Many years ago engineers learned that ZDDP was a great additive to protect flat tappet cams/lifters, as the engine heats up and runs the ZDDP builds up a coating of ZDDP on the metal parts. This is the important part, most of your engines wear occurs at start up before the oil is flowing and providing protection. ZDDP is a sacrificial coating meaning that when you start the engine the ZDDP is providing protection and is being worn away until the oil pressure/flow takes over protecting the metal parts.

Without a protective sacrificial coating like ZDDP you have metal to metal contact that is wearing the metal surface of the parts like the cam lobe and lifter bottom and lifter sides as well. Once the metal surface of the cam lobe and or lifter start to wear that is where you get the failure.

These newer oils rarely have to deal with flat tappet cam/lifter systems because most modern engines are one of the following, overhead cam much less pressure on the cam lobe, roller lifter again much less pressure on the cam lobe.

The flat tappet cam in block pushrod activated system creates much more pressure on the cam lobe and bottom of the lifter, hence why ZDDP became popular in oils, it's protective sacrificial benefits. Now the new spec oils have reduced ZDDP and they want to completely remove ZDDP and have replaced the ZDDP with other high pressure additives, the problem is these new high pressure additives do not provide a sacrificial coating like ZDDP does so when you start up your engine with these new oils you are back to metal on metal until the oil pressure builds up, hence the reason there was a rash of flat tappet cam and lifter failures when the first oils with reduced ZDDP came out. Remember that overhead cam and roller lifter style valve trains are not effected by the removal of the ZDDP it is only flat tappet style valve trains that are still effected.

This is where I have issue with Bob is the oil guy forum, they will push the new oils as the be all end all of motor oils ignoring those with flat tappet cam engines.

One more example of why ZDDP is important to flat tappet engines, a race team was buying their engines from Roush Racing, one of the top performance engine builders in the world. Today known as Roush/Yates as Roush and Yates merged their engine building businesses.

That race team all of the sudden started having cam and lifter failures, they could not make a cam or lifter live for any length of time. They got with Roush Racing and presented them with their problem, they were using the same oil Roush was which was Valvoline at the time who was also a Roush sponsor on his race cars. Both the team who discovered the problem and Roush were stumped and finally Roush Racing contacted Valvoline and discovered that Valvoline had changed the formula of their racing oil changing the amount of ZDDP in it.

In the end Valvoline working with Roush Racing changed the formula to include the original amount of ZDDP and the cam lifter problem was solved.

Professional engine builders of flat tappet style engines recommend from 1200 PPM to 1500 PPM of ZDDP depending on the engine builder. The new API specs allow no more than around 800 PPM of ZDDP, I don't know what the new SN+ API spec allows.

High performance engines will not last with ZDDP level at 800 PPM because the valve spring pressures are just too high and will damage the cam lobe/lifter.

A stock engine will have a much better chance of not being damaged but some will suffer damage and it will be on your dime once out of warranty.

Now what makes the Yamaha V-Twin susceptible to cam lobe lifter damage is like a high performance engine that runs high valve spring pressures this Yamaha design is using one rocker arm to operate two valves and valve springs, so you don't have the pressure of one valve spring on the cam lobe lifter, you have the pressure of two valve springs upon the single cam lobe and lifer because these engines are a four valve cylinder head design operated by a cam in block push rod flat tappet design.

What you have is one cam lobe operating one lifter and push rod that operates one rocker arm that is operating two valves at the same time creating more pressure on the cam lobe and bottom of the lifter which is why the ZDDP is so important every time you start this engine.

Having said that the choice is yours run what ever oil you want, for me I will stick with Redline oils in all my vehicles because Redline has plenty of ZDDP in it to protect the engine at start up.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 04:41 AM
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What is the excuse for removing ZDDP from oils you might wonder, well the reason is because ZDDP can damage a catalytic converter but in a properly running engine there has been no proof that ZDDP has ever been the cause of a catalytic converter failure.

So unless your vehicle is burning oil at a considerable rate which means you have serious engine problems anyway you will never suffer a failed catalytic converter due to ZDDP in your engine oil.

I continue to run oils with ZDDP levels as high as 2100 PPM and have never suffered a catalytic converter failure on any of my vehicles.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 05:00 AM
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One last thing to address is the API rating and then each manufacture will have their own spec rating listed as follows Toyota 00279-OWQTE-01 or GM dexos1 or Honda/Acura 08798-9036/08798-9032 the list goes on with each manufacture claiming their spec is special and required yet you will have several manufactures all with their own so called special required spec on an API rated oil say SN rated.

So please explain to me how each of these manufactures have their own special specs that they can all be on the same bottle of oil.

Where Honda may want more of one additive, Toyota may want more of a different additive and GM will want something different than both Toyota and Honda yet their specs are all on the same bottle of oil.

Sorry but 1+1 is not adding up to 2 in this case.

Now here comes the kicker, in every owners manual without fail will say to use an API certified oil with for arguments sake SN rating. Motorcycles will use the JASO rating.

So wait a minute, the manufacture has made up their own special spec but then in the owners manual they say just use an oil with an API SN rating and you are good to go.

That is my other issue with Bob is the oil guy, over there you had better make sure the manufactures spec is on that bottle of oil or your engine is going to blow up and your car is going to burst into flames and your family will be picked up by space aliens.

The truth is those special ratings are just another way to try and get the customer to buy that manufactures oil, GM wants you to buy their branded oil, Toyota wants you to buy theirs, Honda wants you to buy Honda oil, Chrysler wants you to by Mopar oil, Ford wants you to buy Motorcraft oil the list goes on and on.

Now one thing to remember is that all manufactures bid out there oil contracts and the lowest bidder will always get the contract, so you are not getting the best oil on the market, you are getting the lowest bid oil on the market.

This is another reason I stick with Redline, I know what I am getting and that is a top of the line motor oil.

Last edited by American; 10-07-2019 at 06:42 AM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Lots of knowledge on this site. Redline it is for the next oil change 👍

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 08:50 AM
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I have done a little digging on this Maxima brand oil and while they give you some information they hide far more than they give.

Here is their data sheet page, it really does not tell you much so I would assume that they are using a group III conventional hydrocracked oil calling it full synthetic and adding in some group V Ester but who knows how much.

https://www.maximausa.com/tds/vtwin/...0Syn%20TDS.pdf

Here is the Redline product data page for their 20w-50 motorcycle oil.

https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f...OD_INFO(1).pdf

Here is the product page also with information on the Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil notice Redline is very clear they use group V Ester and group IV PAO base stocks in their oil both of which are true full synthetic oils.

https://www.redlineoil.com/20w50-motorcycle-oil

Redline I have found to be the most open company when it comes to the make up of their oils where other companies give you a little information but leave you guessing about most of their oils make up and what groups are used.

I am using the Redline 10w-40 motorcycle oil in my 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental.

Last edited by American; 10-08-2019 at 08:53 AM.
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