Dark Side Discussion - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Dark Side Discussion

I made this thread to talk about the good and bad of going Dark side or dbl dark side. No one needs to get butt hurt in this thread. If flaming starts I will have it removed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I run dbl dark on my GW. I do not have any issues cornering. I do not have any issues leaning into the curves. The difference I noticed is when I came back to center it came up a lot quicker than with a MC tire. In the rain the bike does not wiggle like it did with a MC tire. Checking my load rating on the best mc tire I was at its limit with wife and gear on the bike. I had the front and back of the bike weighed. I am well within the C/T I mounted the tire myself on the rear and the bead visually hits where the car rim hits. I was able to get it to mount up with less than 40PSI of pressure. After reading how a CT and MC tire bead is I did put High Tack on it. This is the same stuff we use on the race car rims in the back to stop the rim from spinning inside the tire on launch. I used I keep the tire within the tire specifications for air. The front is of course a rear turned around. I have zero issues in the rain. The rain grooves move the water just fine. Since I put progressive springs in and tapered bearings I do not have the GW front end wobble or abnormal wear. So I cannot judge that from a normal front tire to a back tire. If you are uncomfortable running dark side don't do it. I wanted to do it on my Raider as well, but looking at the low profile of the back tire I do feel it would affect the handling too much for comfort. Since the Raider is set up for a single rider and no luggage I do not have the load capacity need of a car tire and it is not my "Touring" bike so it is possible I will not put the mileage on the tire within the 3 years I set for all my tires to be replaced.

Have fun with this thread. I do not care if it goes left right or sideways. The couch is over there -->>
We have a full bar upstairs and we are serving popcorn at each table.
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post #2 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 09:52 AM
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The biggest unresolved issue that I am aware of is the fact that motorcycle wheels/rims are different from car or truck tire rims. The bead sizes are different and they are not interchangeable. As far as I know, no one is making motorcycle wheels that match the bead dimensions of a car tire, or making a car wheel that will somehow fit on a motorcycle.

I have seen a lot of custom motorcycles, usually with very large engines, that have what clearly looks like a wide and flat profile car tire on the back wheel. The bikes look like they would stand up without a kickstand. Whether these bikes are intended to be trailer queens that get transported from one show to the next, and seldom get ridden - I don't know.

If someone were to address this, either by making MC wheels with the dimensions to match car tire beads, that would resolve what I would perceive to be the primary issue.

Last week I took a road trip from upstate NY to Newport Rhode Island, 850 miles there and back. I was suppose to get a mid size car from the rental company, but they were out of cars, so they gave me a brand new Ford F150 crew cab pickup truck for the same price. The trip is 95% highway miles, and I enjoyed driving a new truck with the cruise control nearly the whole way on the interstate. (The F150 got 22mpg, so I have no complaints).

I did notice that, getting a feel for the truck at 70mph, if I pushed the steering wheel a bit hard to change lanes the truck really really loaded up its suspension and tires, and it had a very mushy over-steering feeling - far more than I expected. Ok I expected it to drive like a truck, its not a sports car, and if I had to swerve suddenly or took a corner too fast I would quickly get in trouble. But its a 5 passenger truck, and would easily carry 2000 pounds of weight in the bed, so it has to be driven accordingly with respect for its limitations.

There are people that ride their motorcycles under similar conditions, fully loaded or overloaded, riding on the interstate highway with all the handling and cornering needs of an 18 wheeler, and riding all day long.

So yeah, I could see someone wanting a heavy highway tire on their bike. I'm surprised no one makes one specifically for a motorcycle, and no one makes or modifies wheels specifically for putting that kind of car tire on a motorcycle. What do they put on custom bikes that have V8 engines?! I have no idea!

People seem to always put car tires on trikes and on side cars, so something is disconnected here.

Last edited by KCW; 02-25-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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post #3 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 10:35 AM
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My only experience with it is my current bike came with a 'darkside' tire on the back. It was probably 30% worn, so clearly had somehow been mounted at least 'good enough'. There was really never a chance I was keeping it, but figured I'd give it a shot before I took the bike over for new shoes. Maybe leave it on for a while and put off paying for new tires. Nope. One ride was all it took. No freakin' way. Felt awful. Scary, in fact.

I don't know enough about beads and mounting to know if it's safe or not. Only that plenty of folks seem to do it without tires blowing out all over the place.

It's certainly not for me just from a 'ride feel' standpoint, though I am anything BUT an interstate rider. I'm more a two-lane back-roads cruiser. Not 'twisties' particularly, but also not flat and mostly-straight for miles on end like an interstate.

I'm not gonna blanket condemn (or endorse) it for others. I can simply say I tried it and wouldn't have it.
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post #4 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 10:48 AM
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The problem with assessing the safety of putting a car tire on a motorcycle, is anyone killed by riding that way is not here to tell us.

I doubt most accident investigators would even think to check if a motorcycle had a car tire on the back wheel.
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post #5 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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The problem with assessing the safety of putting a car tire on a motorcycle, is anyone killed by riding that way is not here to tell us.

I doubt most accident investigators would even think to check if a motorcycle had a car tire on the back wheel.
Yes they do. Looking at the tires is a primary in a crash that involved a death. Hell my ex wife was in a very bad crash with injuries and the officer at the scene checked the tires.

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post #6 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:13 PM
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well yeah they check the tires, but would they have any reason to even look at the tire size and see if the MC letters are there?

I'm sure they look at the treads and look for a bead that came off.

I tried to goggle accidents caused by car tires on motorcycles, and I could not find any kind of reports of 'wrong tires' being a classification.

Just by shear chance there must have been some people that have crashed with car tires on their bikes. Where is that information?
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post #7 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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well yeah they check the tires, but would they have any reason to even look at the tire size and see if the MC letters are there?

I'm sure they look at the treads and look for a bead that came off.

I tried to goggle accidents caused by car tires on motorcycles, and I could not find any kind of reports of 'wrong tires' being a classification.

Just by shear chance there must have been some people that have crashed with car tires on their bikes. Where is that information?
I could not find that information either. That is another reason I went with a car tire. Also for the tire to come off of the bead there would have to be a big problem with that heavy braided steel cable that runs the whole bead of a tire.

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post #8 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 10:38 PM
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I meant more the bead being pushed in off the wheel, which would make a tubeless tire go flat.

Low pressure, skidding sideways, hit a pot hole... ?! We are talking about people putting 600 lbs or more on their seats and luggage racks....

Last edited by KCW; 02-26-2018 at 09:58 AM.
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post #9 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 11:24 AM
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OK here's my take on going Darkside... oh wait, I already said all that I possibly could say on the matter elsewhere so I'll spare everyone. You're welcome.
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post #10 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 12:37 PM
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well yeah they check the tires, but would they have any reason to even look at the tire size and see if the MC letters are there?

I'm sure they look at the treads and look for a bead that came off.

I tried to goggle accidents caused by car tires on motorcycles, and I could not find any kind of reports of 'wrong tires' being a classification.

Just by shear chance there must have been some people that have crashed with car tires on their bikes. Where is that information?
I am a retired police officer, spent 13 years in traffic homicide, the reason you don't find information on car tires on motorcycles in crashes is because a normal crash report does not capture that information, even the traffic homicide report while it captures more tire information does not break it down as to if it is a car tire being used.

You were correct in your other post about the beads on car rims and motorcycle rims being different sizes, that was done to discourage the use of car tires on motorcycles, yes it was done on purpose.

This double dark side is where you put a rear motorcycle tire on the front running it in reverse rotation of the arrow, that is not a good idea either because of how the belts in the rear tire are designed, running the tire against the rotation arrow or backwards can result in the belts coming apart.

Again crash reports don't capture that data nor do traffic homicide reports.

A car tire is not designed to roll up onto its shoulder, where a motorcycle tire is designed to do that, that is why a motorcycle tire is curved.

Notice the only bikes you see running car tires outside of custom choppers with huge tires are large cruisers and touring bikes. How many have been involved in crashes, crashes with injuries and fatal crashes is unknown again because that information is not collected and tracked on the crash reports.

All they do on a traffic homicide report is document the brand, size and air pressure if not flat and the tread depth. No where on the reports does is ask is it is the proper tire for the vehicle/motorcycle.

The percentage of people running car tires on motorcycles is small so any sample size would be small as well.

One of the claims dark siders push is car tires provide better traction but if that was the case whey don't motorcycle makers install car tires from the factory? They would actually save money on the cost of the bike as car tires are much cheaper than motorcycle tires so that would mean more profit in their pockets yet they don't do that for a reason, one the rim beads are not compatible no matter if people are forcing car tires on motorcycle rims or not. Two the bikes are designed for motorcycle tires because motorcycle tires are designed to lean and still provide traction.

Car tires are not designed to be leaned, the cruiser and touring bike people are getting away with it only because they can't push it to the limit like a sport bike can and you never see car tires on sport bikes.

I know I am wasting my time but installing car tires on motorcycles is not smart.
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Last edited by American; 06-11-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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