Darkside Dilemma - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Darkside Dilemma

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I just took the afternoon off to read another thread discussing the use of a car tire (ct) on a motorcycle, commonly called Darksiding. Wow! One has to be really interested in that subject to slog through it all. So I’m going to see if I can summarize here and make it easy to understand.

First is to remember there are three camps. One is the denier who can tell you why it is bad to use a ct on a bike and all the things that may happen. Next is the avid Darksider that uses a ct on his large cruiser or touring bike on the rear wheel. Lastly comes the undecided rider who wants to be safe, confident, economical, and have a good ride but not sure of what to do. I’m going to gear my points more towards helping the undecided bloke.

To understand the denier, you have your scientifically oriented person who goes by the book and bases his thoughts on what “smart people” have figured out. You would be foolish to go against these professionals who know what they are doing. This is that the ct does not fit right on a mc wheel, will not seat well when installing, doesn’t handle correctly, and will be a nuisance if the law or insurance companies get you by the handlebars. An important key to their language are the hedge words they use such as: theory, can, should, may, likely, if, and possibly. But the real question to them is, do any of those things really happen?

On the opposite bank, are the wiggly Darksiders—heathens all. They don’t believe the “theorists” and their belief in “experts”. They are mostly Amazon shoppers and hence have realized that the “experts”, (i.e.: the manufacturers and sales companies) have one point of view while many of the actual users (the customers) may have a different take on the product. This different take is called anecdotal evidence. That is, what do the actual users of the product think. Or another way to say it is “field testing”. When really used, does this product perform like it’s supposed to? Meaning how do the Darksiders’ experience compare with what the “experts” say should happen.

Then we have the undecided rider, or as I like to call them, the Undies. So who to believe. Both sides consider the Undies' wellbeing important. I would suggest that they look at the difference between two arguments and realize it’s a simple matter of deciding, one, do you want to believe the theory of the deniers without any proof and only supposition? Or two, do you believe the multitudes of Darksiders who have field tested CTs for millions of miles and regularly report their results on websites.

I would ask anyone responding to this thread that you refrain from giving any info that you don’t have proof of. Just using the theory from some researcher sitting at a computer is not proof. Theory, man, theory. Or saying someone had some type of accident or problem when there is no proof of the cause. (An example would be to say a motorcycle had an accident and the tire came off just because it was a ct when it could have hit a curb or a piece of rebar, been deflated, had a blowout, etc.)

Again, please respond with facts only. Thanks.

--

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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:34 PM
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Proof is almost impossible to come by. This is why almost everything in science and math is a theory, and it can take decades or longer before a theory is proved. By this time, the tires in question will have been replaced with different models and can no longer be had, and the results will be different.

Something I have been thinking about this week is hydroplaning. With a motorcycle tire it is basically impossible, due to the curve of the tire. But if you where to darkside it, you would greatly increase the chances of hydroplaning.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:42 PM
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^ you have never seen the videos of motorcross riders hydroplaning across standing water on their bikes?

the biggest problem with trying to find negative evidence against car tires on motorcycles, it like the old statment "we didnt wear bicycle helmets or wear seatbelts when we were kids, and we are just fine..."

yes, because the kids who died are not here to talk about it.

One way to minimize the risk is to get a motorcycle wheel that is designed with the bead lip for a car tire. If you google it people are making them.

Trikes use car tires. Sidecars use car tires.

Last edited by KCW; 01-19-2019 at 08:47 PM.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonK View Post
--

I just took the afternoon off to read another thread discussing the use of a car tire (ct) on a motorcycle, commonly called Darksiding. Wow! One has to be really interested in that subject to slog through it all. So I’m going to see if I can summarize here and make it easy to understand.

First is to remember there are three camps. One is the denier who can tell you why it is bad to use a ct on a bike and all the things that may happen. Next is the avid Darksider that uses a ct on his large cruiser or touring bike on the rear wheel. Lastly comes the undecided rider who wants to be safe, confident, economical, and have a good ride but not sure of what to do. I’m going to gear my points more towards helping the undecided bloke.

To understand the denier, you have your scientifically oriented person who goes by the book and bases his thoughts on what “smart people” have figured out. You would be foolish to go against these professionals who know what they are doing. This is that the ct does not fit right on a mc wheel, will not seat well when installing, doesn’t handle correctly, and will be a nuisance if the law or insurance companies get you by the handlebars. An important key to their language are the hedge words they use such as: theory, can, should, may, likely, if, and possibly. But the real question to them is, do any of those things really happen?

On the opposite bank, are the wiggly Darksiders—heathens all. They don’t believe the “theorists” and their belief in “experts”. They are mostly Amazon shoppers and hence have realized that the “experts”, (i.e.: the manufacturers and sales companies) have one point of view while many of the actual users (the customers) may have a different take on the product. This different take is called anecdotal evidence. That is, what do the actual users of the product think. Or another way to say it is “field testing”. When really used, does this product perform like it’s supposed to? Meaning how do the Darksiders’ experience compare with what the “experts” say should happen.

Then we have the undecided rider, or as I like to call them, the Undies. So who to believe. Both sides consider the Undies' wellbeing important. I would suggest that they look at the difference between two arguments and realize it’s a simple matter of deciding, one, do you want to believe the theory of the deniers without any proof and only supposition? Or two, do you believe the multitudes of Darksiders who have field tested CTs for millions of miles and regularly report their results on websites.

I would ask anyone responding to this thread that you refrain from giving any info that you don’t have proof of. Just using the theory from some researcher sitting at a computer is not proof. Theory, man, theory. Or saying someone had some type of accident or problem when there is no proof of the cause. (An example would be to say a motorcycle had an accident and the tire came off just because it was a ct when it could have hit a curb or a piece of rebar, been deflated, had a blowout, etc.)

Again, please respond with facts only. Thanks.

--
Why are you attempting to re-start a conversation that was already discussed “ad infinitum” in the thread right below this?
There is more than enough info contained in it to clearly explain both perspectives to anyone who is “undecided” as you put it.
Try showing up to a MC rider course on your “darksided” bike. You won’t be allowed on the course. If it was “safe”, they wouldn’t have a problem.

Being ignorant is ok. Staying that way is stupid!
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:51 PM
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RonK, You are not here to do anything other than tell the undecided it is ok to go darkside. You are obviously a darksider yourself, your thread is heavily skewed in that direction. Reminds me of guys that are into firearms and they reload ammunition to a non-standard higher pressure level and it works in their firearm so they go and tell others they can do the same thing cause they have the same firearm. Then some poor fellow does and ends up losing an eye, hand or life. The firearms manufactures tell you not to do it, ammunition manufacturers tell you not to do it but a whole bunch of guys are doing it so it must be safe. What are you going to do if someone takes your counsel and goes darkside and gets killed because of it? Never mind I know "They hit a curb or a piece of metal or something."

PEACE and BLESSINGS
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KCW View Post
^ you have never seen the videos of motorcross riders hydroplaning across standing water on their bikes?
Yes, but they are running low tire pressures to do this, you want the tire to cup in dirt riding normally to get more traction. With normal street tire pressures, the tire shouldn't cup and hydroplane.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:08 PM
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low pressure tires in the dirt?

I dont think so, dirt bikes have knobby tires, and they are about the same pressure as street tires.

Im talking about this: Biker Cranks The Gas, Rides Motorbike Clear Across Lake - Digg
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:11 PM
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Dirt tires are normally 15psi max, and you really attempt to run down to 5psi. But normally you have to keep it at 8-10psi to keep from getting a pinch on the tube causing a flat.
I have never seen anyone go higher than 15psi, normally 15psi is considered your being cheap and attempting to get every last drop of out a tire that is worn out.

Now if your talking about adv riders, sure, they will run street pressures, but they are also not riding their bikes over a lake.

I have never seen a street tire ask for <32psi
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:14 PM
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Sorry, the video you posted he has a huge hydrofoil on that bike, that kept it afloat.
A paddle sand tire to scoop the water. The tires where only there to propel the bike, they did nothing to keep it ontop of the water.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:24 PM
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I didnt catch that, here is a guy just on his dirt bike:


Last edited by KCW; 01-19-2019 at 09:31 PM.
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