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post #1 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-14-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by graybeard View Post
"I will also fight any tyrannical government..."

That's the core reason for the 2nd amendment. An armed populace is the only protection from a tyrannical government.
You would last less than a minute if you decided to get into a confrontation with the government.
People think they will hold them off or something. Against a hundred armed troops with FA large caliber weapons?
Laughable.
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post #2 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-14-2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by road_slug View Post
You would last less than a minute if you decided to get into a confrontation with the government.
People think they will hold them off or something. Against a hundred armed troops with FA large caliber weapons?
Laughable.
I'm glad our forefathers didn't have that attitude back in 1775.

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post #3 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-14-2018, 08:55 PM
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There's a weird paradox in the constitution and bill of rights

on the one hand the USA was one of the first democracy's, where the people have full control to elect their own government and make their own laws

on the other hand, citizens are encouraged to arm themselves to be protected against a tyrannical form of government.. ?!

Its like, the people who wrote the 2nd amendment never read the constitution.

So... we elect our own government, and then if we don't like what its doing we all show up in Washington with our pistols and rifles and bowie knives and start spilling blood?!

Its almost like a comedy routine. I understand this was all highly experimental 240 years ago, and the people that started this giant social experiment had just broken free from a monarchy that was based on a religious justification, a sort of rule of god through a divinely appointed king. And then 1776, we decide to make our own laws, our own government, but just in case, everyone keep up your skill level with your personal weapons.

Its like the Wright brothers inventing the first airplane and thinking, "you know, if this does not work out, we need some mattresses or pillows on the ground.. or maybe we should fly it over a lake the first few years

and here we are 240 years later, and they are still handing out parachutes when you get on a $2B jet plane.

I feel like I should add, things really did all go to hell in 1861, when some American citizens believed they were being abused by the majority, took up arms, and did attack the federal government, and that went on for 4 years. So what good did it do for all those Americans in the southern states to keep their own arms, rise up against what they perceived to be a tyrannical government that was trying to end their way of life? Result was 620,000 dead, with millions more injured, entire cities laid waste, and the people of the southern states ended up worse than when it started.

So what does that mean? They were allowed to keep and bear arms, but entire states were not allowed to say "no, we want to elect our own government, we don't want any part with the northern states... Ok.. so they took up their arms

and the federal government responded with a full out war for 4 years against half the people in its own nation.

If it really does come down to the reality that self government only works as long as everyone keeps their weapons of war handy, so that at any given time for any reason at all, we have the right to start shooting each other

then we have accomplished nothing in the last 240 years. I'm not sure we can technically call such a living arrangement a civilization.

Last edited by KCW; 04-15-2018 at 10:16 AM.
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post #4 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-14-2018, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by road_slug View Post
You would last less than a minute if you decided to get into a confrontation with the government.
People think they will hold them off or something. Against a hundred armed troops with FA large caliber weapons?
Laughable.
if troops were ordered to fire on their own country's citizens, would they? i have to believe they would need a pretty good reason to obey that order, i doubt they would blindly just follow it, they might even splinter in a revolution. it be about the reasons it started, troops have have families too

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post #5 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-14-2018, 11:14 PM
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First off the second amendment isn't an absolute, it can be repealed just like the 18th amendment was by the ratification of the 21st. Secondly, US troops are far better equipped than any private militia and certainly are far better trained and yes, US troops will fire on citizens... they merely have to be labelled 'terrorists', 'traitors' or 'dissidents'. Thirdly, this is no longer the age of telegraphs and physical means of monetary exchange in the USA, everything is digital and people and organizations can easily be crippled without having to fire a single shot.
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post #6 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Diogenes415 View Post
First off the second amendment isn't an absolute, it can be repealed just like the 18th amendment was by the ratification of the 21st. Secondly, US troops are far better equipped than any private militia and certainly are far better trained and yes, US troops will fire on citizens... they merely have to be labelled 'terrorists', 'traitors' or 'dissidents'. Thirdly, this is no longer the age of telegraphs and physical means of monetary exchange in the USA, everything is digital and people and organizations can easily be crippled without having to fire a single shot.
You say this like you would be willing to allow it to happen. I sir, will not. My individual involvement in a rebellion (if need be) may not amount to much, but I will stand up for what I believe in. All of the effort and victory in WW2 is for nothing if we allow our government to treat us as Hitler did Germany. As a matter of fact, I believe the soldiers and citizens from that era would be ashamed of the current state that, we the people, have allowed this country to slip into. I am ashamed that apparently the fighting spirit of this country's citizens has fallen so badly in less than a century. Political correctness has crippled this country. Heaven forbid you offend somebody. The liberals will always throw a tantrum about something, guns are just the target for now. They are literally saying " I don't like your guns, so you can't have them." What gall! That kind of behavior is seen in toddlers, it shouldn't be in adults. The solution is simple, if you don't like guns, don't buy one. But do not dare to try to take mine from me.

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post #7 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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He's right. The second amendment isn't absolute and should have certain limitations to what private owners can posess.
You can't go into a movie theater and yell "fire" and say its your 1st amendment right. It's a limitation.
People do not need ar15s, ak47s, beta mags, drums, other types of military surplus firearms and extended capacity magazines.
You can't claim they are for hunting, sporting or home protection. Those types of weapons are designed to kill a lot of people quickly period.
You need home protection, get a handgun and make it a revolver made out of steel. Not plastic like what all the manufacturers are doing these days.
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post #8 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 09:09 AM
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As far as guns go without trying to get too political. I own guns and love guns. I would never give up my guns without a fight. But I do think we need gun reform in the form of better/more rigorous background checks. I support the ban on bump stocks unless you have an even more rigorous check and get a license like you have to for automatic weapons. "Assualt weapons" are just regular rifles with some back plastic. They are semi-auto just like pistols are. If you ban them, you get more crime period. Felons can't buy guns, but I am sure you can pull up your county law log and see at least one felon that was arrested on a gun charge. Criminals will still get guns and citizens will be unable to stop them.

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post #9 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 09:23 AM
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This video explains a lot. Ignorant people are being informed by ignorant people.

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post #10 of 150 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road_slug View Post
You would last less than a minute if you decided to get into a confrontation with the government.
People think they will hold them off or something. Against a hundred armed troops with FA large caliber weapons?
Laughable.
That's not the plan. It's not a matter of standing off the government from inside my little garage. It's a matter of the government knowing the populace is armed and watching and that there will be resistance when they go too far.

Hopefully, there will be a large percentage of those armed troops who will refuse to shoot down their countrymen.
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