Ok heres a new one... - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Customers 02 road star Silverado...
Did oil change n other misc items..
I always check charging at battery when looking a bike over. Bike wasn't charging so did typical tests n found bad stator..
Replaced stator n reg w oem.. Here's where it gets weird n I'm lost now..
Stator unplugged n it puts out 60+ ACV all day long..
Plugged in n it drops to 11 ACV n only 12.4v or so at battery..
I've spent a month or more trying to find the problem..
I've used 3 different regs now (OEM twice n a cheap Chinese) , I used a 4th one that is the mosfet type to bypass all factory wiring.. They all do the same thing.
I've pulled the stator n checked for pinched wires etc.. All perfect.. All ohms tests are perfect for stator , all wires to/from reg to battery ohm out perfect. Grounds are good, no burned plugs, battery voltage at red wires on starter relay.. Unplugged at reg gives me 60+ACV, battery voltage at unplugged reg...
Good battery
Only additional load are two lights up front..
So two key points ..
Lose ACV plugged into stator
Lose ACV plugged into reg
If I unplug either its good
Wiggling wire harness n plugs no change..

I'm n 04 MMI grad . been self employed for many years. (Normal day job plus working on bikes at home, now 4 yrs just working on bikes)
Any n all ideas appreciated
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 04:01 PM
KCW
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Have you tried another battery?

can you ohm test the stator? If it puts out 60VAC with no load, but drops to 12.4V with the regulator & battery connected, it sounds like the stator cannot push any current: bad or wrong stator for the bike?

BTW, I assume you are rev'ing the engine off idle when testing the charging? Stator usually does not have enough output to charge the battery at idle.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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ave you tried another battery? YES, NO CHANGE. BATTERY IN BIKE CHARGES WELL N LOAD TESTS FINE

can you ohm test the stator?
NEW OEM STATOR N OHMS OUT PERFECT

If it puts out 60VAC with no load, but drops to 12.4V with the regulator & battery connected, it sounds like the stator cannot push any current: bad or wrong stator for the bike? IT WORKS PERFECT W EITHER THE STATOR UNPLUGGED
OR
THE REG/REC UNPLUGGED

02 xv1600a Silverado
4WM-81410-01-00TW
Looks to be right.. DONT HAVE BOX ANYMORE.. N DEFINITELY CANT AFFORD TO BUY ONE TO MAKE SURE..

I assume you are rev'ing the engine off idle when testing the charging? Stator usually does not have enough output to charge the battery at idle
YEP NO CHANGE ..
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:14 PM
KCW
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from an electrical perspective, if a power source can put out its normal voltage, but it drops too low when the load is applied, there is a high resistance in the voltage source. Im not familiar with the stator on that bike, I assume its at least 3 phases (three wires coming out?).

If the stator is wired in a Y configuration, with a center ground, if the ground connection has high resistance or worse if its only coupled thru capacitance, then you would get a good voltage reading with no load (no current flowing) but it would drop when you connect the regulator and battery. To visualize this, thats what would happen if you took the ground connection off and put a 100,000 ohm resistor in series with it. With no current (load) the voltage would still read 60VAC.

Is it possible to measure the voltage on the stator side of the regulator, and then connect it to the regulator and still measure the stator voltage? If the stator wires stay at a high voltage, but the regulator is only putting out 12.4 V, that would indicate the stator is good.

I would be inclined to wire the stator to the regulator and that to the battery, with nothing else connected to the bike, unless it uses the ECM as part of the voltage regulation circuit.

Its easy to get stuck trying to debug something like this because you are sure the stator is good, the regulator is good, the battery is good, the wires and grounds are good.. but it doesnt work, so you keep trying it thinking "but it has to work!" If all those components are good, then the fault has to be something / somewhere else.

If the ECM is part of the regulation circuit, or the ECM tells the regulator to turn on after the bike has started, make sure the ECM is also grounded solid, and any enable signal to the regulator is working.

Last edited by KCW; 03-11-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:29 PM
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Did you check it when the engine is running at 2-3k rpm?
Normally at idle an alternator will not produce enough power to charge a battery.
New alternators with the mosfets adjust so they do work at idle, but general rule is you need to be running at speed to get a charge out of it.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:33 PM
KCW
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patrick, yes he said he rev'd it up...

last line of his last post
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Yep it's 3 phase.. Typical 3 wires from stator to reg.. Unplugged it tests out exactly as it should
30+ACV at idle (60+ACV at 2k)
OFL to ground

It puts out 60+ACV if isolated (unplugged) at stator plug
It reads 60+ACV at reg plug when unplugged from harness (shows good wiring from stator to reg)

I have tried a mosfet style reg to bypass the factory wiring all together.. Does the exact same thing.. All good till ya plug in the regulator.

Highly unlikely I bought 4 different bad regs (OEM n Chinese)

The only extra part in the system is the starter relay (yes the engineers ran the battery voltage through it) , they both show battery voltage n perfect continuity..



Quote:
Originally Posted by KCW View Post
from an electrical perspective, if a power source can put out its normal voltage, but it drops too low when the load is applied, there is a high resistance in the voltage source. Im not familiar with the stator on that bike, I assume its at least 3 phases (three wires coming out?).

If the stator is wired in a Y configuration, with a center ground, if the ground connection has high resistance or worse if its only coupled thru capacitance, then you would get a good voltage reading with no load (no current flowing) but it would drop when you connect the regulator and battery. To visualize this, thats what would happen if you took the ground connection off and put a 100,000 ohm resistor in series with it. With no current (load) the voltage would still read 60VAC.

Is it possible to measure the voltage on the stator side of the regulator, and then connect it to the regulator and still measure the stator voltage? If the stator wires stay at a high voltage, but the regulator is only putting out 12.4 V, that would indicate the stator is good.

I would be inclined to wire the stator to the regulator and that to the battery, with nothing else connected to the bike, unless it uses the ECM as part of the voltage regulation circuit.

Its easy to get stuck trying to debug something like this because you are sure the stator is good, the regulator is good, the battery is good, the wires and grounds are good.. but it doesnt work, so you keep trying it thinking "but it has to work!" If all those components are good, then the fault has to be something / somewhere else.

If the ECM is part of the regulation circuit, or the ECM tells the regulator to turn on after the bike has started, make sure the ECM is also grounded solid, and any enable signal to the regulator is working.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:37 PM
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Opps, misread that somehow.

Assuming the stator ohms out correctly (not even sure what it should ohm out to, but normally if all 3 are the same, it's unlikely all 3 are bad).
Can only thing that something else is going on, magnets damaged/missing? If this was the case I would imagine it would be noticeable when you replaced that stator.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:42 PM
KCW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qkenuf4u View Post
Customers 02 road star Silverado...
Did oil change n other misc items..
I always check charging at battery when looking a bike over. Bike wasn't charging so did typical tests n found bad stator.. ...
I have to point out that this is an odd situation. Was the bike running when the customer brought it in?

The reason is it would be statistically odd if the bike was running ok, and being used, he brought it in for an oil change and other things, and you happen to notice the charging circuit had failed. If the bike was not charging it would drain the battery dead while riding with the headlight on in several hours, so from a probability perspective, you just happened to catch it right after it failed, but the battery had not gone dead yet.

This raises the question: is it possible your volt meter is not registering, its internal battery is going dead. Ive seen that happen on Fluke meters, the voltage reading starts running way low, and then after an hour the low battery icon lights up, and the meter shuts off,

Or maybe the point where you are measuring the voltage itself is just a bad connection, or you have a bad ground, or the meter is sticking on AC volts and not switching to DC volts.... It would suck if you went thru the work to replace the stator, and you are still getting the same readings, if it was a bad volt meter, probe wire, or connection point the whole time. Ive torn things apart when I thought they were not working right, but they actually were. like I said before, if the components of the charging system are all good, then something else is not right.

One other mistake I have made, Im getting far sighted and have to wear reading glasses to read a meter up close. A few times I had a Fluke auto-ranging on me, and I was reading milli Volts instead of hundreds of volts, the circuit was off, and I did not notice its range was mV instead of V. At times like that, when impossible things are happening, I expect to wake up and realize it was a bad dream.

Last edited by KCW; 03-11-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Had cover off again the other day.. Flywheel had good magnetism, no damage,
I am curious how close they run to each other (flywheel to stator) .5mm , 1mm, 2mm gap ... I measured both n had a couple mm gap..

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdk View Post
Opps, misread that somehow.

Assuming the stator ohms out correctly (not even sure what it should ohm out to, but normally if all 3 are the same, it's unlikely all 3 are bad).
Can only thing that something else is going on, magnets damaged/missing? If this was the case I would imagine it would be noticeable when you replaced that stator.
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