Vstar 650 running issues - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Vstar 650 running issues

My VStar 650 decided to hate me recently. Occasional no-start, when it does start it runs rough. Sometimes it will idle perfectly, but then anything above ~20% throttle and any sort of load and it bogs down hard.

Timeline of events that led up to this:

Converted to a peanut tank
Ran open carbs at first just to make sure everything was hooked up, and it actually ran decently well. Fired right up but started to run lean under load. Threw individual pod filters on and messed around with taping them to restrict airflow and got it running pretty good. Not great, but enough to drive home over a big ass hill and hold WOT without sputtering too much.

Big ass hurricane
Couple days later a hurricane hit and we got a ridiculous amount of rain. Bike was outside and uncovered (I know, I know.) Went to fire it up the day after and the starter interlock relay was interrupting power (got a few starts intermittently.) Traced wiring and it seems good. Took interlock relay in for a day to reference the part number. Since I was getting an intermittent start before I decided to throw the old relay back on and vio-la, it works perfectly. Cranks everytime.
However.
Now it cranks but wont fire. When it does fire, it very rarely runs. When it runs, it bogs down under any sort of load.

I was thinking stuck floats from debris in my old tank, so I cleaned the carbs out. Helped at first.
I was thinking bad A/F ratios due to the pod filters so I played with the float levels. Helped at first.

Now, the problem seems to be getting progressively worse.

Went out to play with it today and, on a dying battery, I had a runaway starter. As in, took my finger off the starter switch and it kept going...flipped the kill switch, and it kept going...turned the ignition off and took the key out, and it kept going...


Im at my wits end with this thing. Im thinking now my problems are mainly electrical and related to the starter interlock relay, but I want to ask people who are more knowledgeable than me before I start tearing into wiring.

Reptar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:44 PM
Senior Member
 
pauli466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,309
Garage
believe it or not the WD in WD40 stands for water dispersant, spray it into all the switches to dry them out, and you should never change the intake on a motorcycle with out rejetting the carbs correctly. your just asking for trouble doing what you did and now trouble has found you, after drying everything out with the WD i would put the stock breather back on and go from there, be sure to dry out the starter relay at the front of the battery as far as float levels use a small piece of clear tubing and set the levels to lines on the bowls, you can do it with the carbs mounted just remove the two rear tank bolts and prop up tank with a piece of wood, i'v had my 650 for 17 years and never had to touch the float levels, once you mess with em there very hard to get perfect again, and they do need to be perfect for the engine to run right

dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers

Last edited by pauli466; 08-04-2016 at 05:53 PM.
pauli466 is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Thanks, Pauli466.
I'll just say that restricting the pods does the same thing as throwing on the stock intake would. I cant fit the stock snorkel under my tank. Ive got a decent bit experience with Sportsters, and a whole lot of experience tuning very not-stock EFI applications. When I tweaked the float levels I used a caliper, and Im confident they're synced. Im fairly certain that my air/fuel ratios arent the perfect 12.5:1 they should be, but Im also positive there's something more to the issue for a number of reasons, the least of which is that even when I entirely restrict my air intake (which obviously enriches the AFR, which should aid in start&warmup) she struggles to start.

Im more inclined therefor to believe its related to the wiring, especially the starter interlock system since that controls power to the fuel pump, which could very well be causing the no-start/bog down if its leaning out my AFRs.
Reptar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 06:50 AM
Senior Member
 
pauli466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,309
Garage
did the plugs foul so bad they can't recover

dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
pauli466 is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Plugs were pretty fouled. Just for shits and giggles I cleaned off the old ones, and Ive got decent spark from both plugs in both plug wires. No start. Im throwing new plugs in tomorrow regardless, but I dont expect them to get the bike running at this point.

Threw #130 mains in and tweaked my idle a/f screws in accordance with the GAK guidelines, still no start.
Tested resistance at the ignition coils and pickup coil, all are within range.
Cleaned out and wire punched my pilot jets.

I did get her to run briefly earlier today but she was belching black smoke and needed a lot of throttle input.
Reptar is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 08:46 PM
Senior Member
 
pauli466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,309
Garage
with 130 mikuni jets and 3.5 turns out on the pms screws with stock pilot jets the carbs should be close are there any shims under the stock needles, or are they aftermarket with moveable clips, the only thing electrical that failed on my 2000 was the pick up coil and i'v ridden in some serious downpours, even been through the woods with it in muddy nasty 12inch deep puddles, you might say i was dirt bike riding with my 650, i wish i had a pic to show how wet and muddy i got it, i'v had it for 16 years now and have put it through a lot and it has never let me down, i did change the pick up coil and 5th gear but the bike never stopped running or stranded me, sometimes when you get stuck like you are now it's better to spend the 100 dollars for a diagnostic and then if you can handle it do the labour and parts yourself, but be careful not all diagnostics are accurate, if you doing electrical diagnostics yourself make absolutely certain you meter is accurate the cheap meters are just that cheap and inaccurate and useless that will always lead you down the wrong path, believe me i'v been there when i was younger now i only buy top quality tools, and best thing is if you do that, you'll only need to buy it once

dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
pauli466 is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Wound up having to go off-island last minute, haven't gotten to work on the bike until today. Threw my new plugs in, still no start.
Tomorrow Im going to shim the needles (correct me if Im wrong, but I was under the impression that this would make it run poorly but not affect start or idle), flush the tank and add fresh gas, and if that doesnt work go back and re-retest the pickup coil and ignition coils.

Im about two days away from ordering a single carb conversion kit.

I own enough nice tools to know how important they are, but I have to admit that my multimeter isn't one of them. Ive always gotten really accurate resistance readings out of it though, and the components were right in the middle of the acceptable ranges and consistent between the coils. Hard to justify spending a few hundred on a multimeter now that Im not working at a shop anymore, but I really should invest in one considering my affinity for motor swapping watercooled VWs.
Reptar is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2016, 07:56 AM
Senior Member
 
pauli466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,309
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
Wound up having to go off-island last minute, haven't gotten to work on the bike until today. Threw my new plugs in, still no start.
Tomorrow Im going to shim the needles (correct me if Im wrong, but I was under the impression that this would make it run poorly but not affect start or idle), flush the tank and add fresh gas, and if that doesnt work go back and re-retest the pickup coil and ignition coils.

Im about two days away from ordering a single carb conversion kit.

I own enough nice tools to know how important they are, but I have to admit that my multimeter isn't one of them. Ive always gotten really accurate resistance readings out of it though, and the components were right in the middle of the acceptable ranges and consistent between the coils. Hard to justify spending a few hundred on a multimeter now that Im not working at a shop anymore, but I really should invest in one considering my affinity for motor swapping watercooled VWs.
the jet needles don't even begin to lift until after 1/3 throttle so messing with them won't help with your problem, i always check the compression first on a poorly running bike because if it's not right there's nothing you can do until it is right, most times low or uneven compression can traced to valves that are too tight. from what your saying about your problem i believe your going to find that the pick up failed no matter what the test meter shows, i'v also seen a lot of pick up with the wires reversed they're the same color so you can't tell if they're backwards you just switch them and see what happens. the last resort is a bad ECM which can not be tested with conventional meters

dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers

Last edited by pauli466; 08-23-2016 at 08:00 AM.
pauli466 is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2016, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
I was actually really surprised when the pickup coil tested out. I mean, intermittent start, dying while running, progressively worsening condition, those are all electrical issues and seem directly related to both the pickup coil function and the pickup coils fail.
Only thing that Im a little hesitant on is the starter interlock relay issues that preceded this problem. I'll have to go back over the wiring schematics and see if the pickup coil pulls power through the starter interlock relay. Ive heard nightmare stories about replacing the pickup coil and judging by the overall condition of this bike, this is going to be a PITA.
Reptar is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2016, 08:28 AM
Senior Member
 
pauli466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,309
Garage
the ecm is pretty reliable on the 650 they rarely go bad but it does happen, when i worked at the dealership we would install a known good ecm to see if the one in the bike was bad. as far as i can remember i never ran across a bad one in a 650 in the 3 years i was there, but other mechanics working there said they had. the three common issues with the 650 were dirty or misadjusted carbs, the pickup coil or a stator/ regulator issue and occasionally a relay mostly the starter relay and rarely the main relay, more than a few had bad final drives from lack of grease at the shaft coupler. a lot of 650s came in for valve adjustments most for being noisy and a few for being too tight, if the valves were too tight the engine would miss under a heavy load so that's usually why it was brought in. i'm still in touch with those guys so i'll pick their brains and let you know where they think you should be looking, because this is crazy, when working there i don't think it took more than an hour to figure out a problem with any bike that came in, sometimes when a fuel problem was suspected we would just crank the engine with the throttle at 1/3 while spraying carb cleaner into it, just about any internal combustion engine will run fairly good doing that if the ignition is working correctly and it has compression

dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
pauli466 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome