shuddering drivetrain 2012 Vstar 1300 - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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shuddering drivetrain 2012 Vstar 1300

Hi folks - just bought a 2012 Vstar 1300 15k miles...runs well, but sometimes, in all gears,going into the gear the bike shudders and makes a rotary-like whining sound. if I squeeze the clutch just slightly it will ease up and go away if I get it just right.

It's a lot like when you skip up gears and the engine is not ready for such high gear, you get the clunking, shuddering feel and sound.

Giving more gas and running higher RPMs in any given gear eases or completely eliminates it. However, it's such that I have to rev more than it seems I should, pushing higher RPMs cruising in 40mph or so city street situations in 3rd rather than to ride easy in 4th.

I've read some internet discussions about "clutch shudder", or, as they call it, "chudder", but I find no link between these bigger Yamahas and that term ("Chudder").

Anyone have any ideas?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 03:19 PM
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I can't comment on the whining sound, and I can't tell you what speed I shift at, but 40 mph and 3rd gear is not an issue for these. They are high revving engines. They are also set very lean from the factory so that would account for what you describe other than the noise. There are ways to "fix" the too lean problem. Others with more knowledge will comment, but I don't think you have a problem with the bike other than getting used to the higher RPMs.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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That's kinda what the guy I bought it from said. The whining noise may jst be how this bike sounds.

thanks for the comment!
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepewitt View Post
Hi folks - just bought a 2012 Vstar 1300 15k miles...runs well, but sometimes, in all gears,going into the gear the bike shudders and makes a rotary-like whining sound. if I squeeze the clutch just slightly it will ease up and go away if I get it just right.

It's a lot like when you skip up gears and the engine is not ready for such high gear, you get the clunking, shuddering feel and sound.

Giving more gas and running higher RPMs in any given gear eases or completely eliminates it. However, it's such that I have to rev more than it seems I should, pushing higher RPMs cruising in 40mph or so city street situations in 3rd rather than to ride easy in 4th.

I've read some internet discussions about "clutch shudder", or, as they call it, "chudder", but I find no link between these bigger Yamahas and that term ("Chudder").

Anyone have any ideas?
These V Stars are short stroke V Twins that need higher RPM, the shuddering you are experiencing is due to "short shifting" shifting into a higher gear than the engine is ready for. 40 MPH is way to slow for 4th gear. You already found at higher RPM it goes away, and slipping the clutch simply takes the load of the engine.

Also if the bike is stock, they are choked down quite a bit on power, and run excessively lean for emissions. That kills the low end torque. Most add a fuel tuner, air intake and freer exhaust which makes the bike a different motorcycle, and there is a complete redo of the ECU software out that also makes the bike much better
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-04-2017, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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That all makes perfect sense, Baron. Once I got over the idea that the clutch is somehow failing (symptoms really don't point there at all if i think about it) the concept that it is running lean is sensible. I know on a carbureted bike I have, it was lean when I got it (had straight pipe exhaust and the brass caps over the mixture screws were still intact) and it would backfire a lot when letting off the throttle...watching for that on this bike - I may be looking for something that won't happen since we have the TPS and IAC ECM etc. controlling things.

So may I ask...is the fuel tuner addition (after i replace this factory muffler) something a guy with reasonable mechanical ability (i tune sprocket and chain combos on chain drives, re-jet / adjust carbs, do all bolt-on, bolt-off stuff as well) can jump into, or is it particularly special and precise that should be done in a pro shop? I've seen a Cobra unit that purports to manage itself (hmm?) and the Dyno Jet Power Commander that goes through a pc, and apparently needs to be mounted real time while cycling gears - meaning "DYNOMOMETER" which would definitely mean taking to a shop...

Thoughts?
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-04-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mikepewitt View Post
That all makes perfect sense, Baron. Once I got over the idea that the clutch is somehow failing (symptoms really don't point there at all if i think about it) the concept that it is running lean is sensible. I know on a carbureted bike I have, it was lean when I got it (had straight pipe exhaust and the brass caps over the mixture screws were still intact) and it would backfire a lot when letting off the throttle...watching for that on this bike - I may be looking for something that won't happen since we have the TPS and IAC ECM etc. controlling things.

So may I ask...is the fuel tuner addition (after i replace this factory muffler) something a guy with reasonable mechanical ability (i tune sprocket and chain combos on chain drives, re-jet / adjust carbs, do all bolt-on, bolt-off stuff as well) can jump into, or is it particularly special and precise that should be done in a pro shop? I've seen a Cobra unit that purports to manage itself (hmm?) and the Dyno Jet Power Commander that goes through a pc, and apparently needs to be mounted real time while cycling gears - meaning "DYNOMOMETER" which would definitely mean taking to a shop...

Thoughts?
There are various fuel control units. The cheaper units like the Cobra manual tuner, has pot settings you can adjust. Which work pretty well for most. The Cobra auto-tuner looks at the acceleration of he engine and adds or subtracts fuel based on that. The Commander units have "maps" that can be uploaded etc. One popular mod that is gaining traction, is having the ECU re-flashed. This takes care of all the undesirable tuning that the factory did to the ECU for emissions and mileage.The flash fixes many things like throttle mapping/response, removing fuel cut, adjusting ignition timing and mixture settings. The ECU flash is available from Ivan's Performance Products and he has stellar reviews. I have the flash myself and would do it in a heartbeat if I had to replace the bike.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-05-2017, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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These V Stars are short stroke V Twins that need higher RPM, the shuddering you are experiencing is due to "short shifting" shifting into a higher gear than the engine is ready for. 40 MPH is way to slow for 4th gear. You already found at higher RPM it goes away, and slipping the clutch simply takes the load of the engine.

Also if the bike is stock, they are choked down quite a bit on power, and run excessively lean for emissions. That kills the low end torque. Most add a fuel tuner, air intake and freer exhaust which makes the bike a different motorcycle, and there is a complete redo of the ECU software out that also makes the bike much better

I went out last night, armed with your advice and tried to convince myself what you say above applies - but i noticed i get it at various spots in the gear curve, in each gear. And the rotary-like noise, I'm satisfied it's not just "Yamaha squeal" as I've read on some other threads..and then I came across this quote by you in another thread on 3/25/17 8:24 am

The whining or squealing can indicate several things.

1. The belt could be too tight or misaligned. Easy fix
2. The front drive pulley is loose, although they are torqued and the nut is staked, they still come loose due to the washer between the nut and drive pulley working loose. But this has happened on all types of belt drive V Stars, not very common, but have ready 5 posts on various forms from different people about it.
3. This unfortunately may be what is wrong, the rear drive pulley needle bearings are bad (not the rear wheel bearings) this is somewhat common with he 950/1300 line mostly due to the tight factory belt settings, it is impossible to lube the needle bearings adequately unless the seals are removed. Some as a preventative measure replace the rear pulley hub bearings and rear wheel bearings every other tire change. Not very common, but It seems like I ready about this on these bikes about every 6 months to a year on the forums.


THAT RIGHT THERE...THAT'S MY ISSUE.

I've learned about the loose pulley nut issue today...but maybe they fixed that before 2012 as it is mentioned only on older years. I'm going to check these things you cite for sure.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-05-2017, 08:52 PM
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So you have a loose front pulley nut? I know Yamaha has been staking them for a while, but some still come loose, they can get to where the pulley damages the final drive spline due to the excessive movement.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mikepewitt View Post
That all makes perfect sense, Baron. Once I got over the idea that the clutch is somehow failing (symptoms really don't point there at all if i think about it) the concept that it is running lean is sensible. I know on a carbureted bike I have, it was lean when I got it (had straight pipe exhaust and the brass caps over the mixture screws were still intact) and it would backfire a lot when letting off the throttle...watching for that on this bike - I may be looking for something that won't happen since we have the TPS and IAC ECM etc. controlling things.

So may I ask...is the fuel tuner addition (after i replace this factory muffler) something a guy with reasonable mechanical ability (i tune sprocket and chain combos on chain drives, re-jet / adjust carbs, do all bolt-on, bolt-off stuff as well) can jump into, or is it particularly special and precise that should be done in a pro shop? I've seen a Cobra unit that purports to manage itself (hmm?) and the Dyno Jet Power Commander that goes through a pc, and apparently needs to be mounted real time while cycling gears - meaning "DYNOMOMETER" which would definitely mean taking to a shop...

Thoughts?
There are various fuel control units. The cheaper units like the Cobra manual tuner, has pot settings you can adjust. Which work pretty well for most. The Cobra auto-tuner looks at the acceleration of he engine and adds or subtracts fuel based on that. The Commander units have "maps" that can be uploaded etc. One popular mod that is gaining traction, is having the ECU re-flashed. This takes care of all the undesirable tuning that the factory did to the ECU for emissions and mileage.The flash fixes many things like throttle mapping/response, removing fuel cut, adjusting ignition timing and mixture settings. The ECU flash is available from Ivan's Performance Products and he has stellar reviews. I have the flash myself and would do it in a heartbeat if I had to replace the bike.
+ 1 on Ivans Flash
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 04:25 PM
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Hi Mike, welcome to the forum. Lots of great information from fellow members to digest. Our Yammys from the factory are very lean and you've several options to cure that. Let us know what you find out about the whining/squealing issue, and ride safely!


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