Hello from Central Florida - Star Motorcycle Forums: Star Raider, V-Max, V-Star, Road-Star Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Hello from Central Florida

Bought a 2009 V-star 950 3 months ago and just finished with the first round of mods. Geared it up over 15% and made a real machine outta it by running a P215/70/16 rear tire with a four tooth smaller rear pulley.
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Last edited by bigpig41; 10-03-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:34 PM
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Welcome from Houston, Texas. Glad you joined us. Here's a few interesting threads to check out when you get a chance.

https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...ms-bike-month/

https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...ighlight=Yammy

https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...where-you.html

https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...enced-you.html

https://www.starbikeforums.com/forum...ature-you.html

Ride often and safe.

2001 Vstar 1100 Classic (sold), Cobra Slash Cut full exhaust, Dropped 1 inch with lowering links, ORK, 4.5 inch handlebar risers, Ultimate passenger seat, Passenger pegs moved forward 4 inches, Handlebar clock, KN air filter, Viking saddlebags, Additional rear lighting
Loose nut "me" behind the bars
2006 Harley Electra Glide Ultra Classic

https://sites.google.com/site/vstar1100kb/home
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:49 PM
KCW
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15% is a hell of a jump on the final drive.

I just added a 1300 Royal Star to my Garage next to my VS650.

If I get on the Royal Star just a bit it will spool up to 30 mph in 1st gear, and hit 50mph in second, and I still have not hit the rev limiter. After riding the 650 for 6 years its taken me a while to get it into my head the 5th gear is overdrive on the RS, a steep overdrive. If I shift into 5th below 50mph the engine feels like its just idling.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 09:04 PM
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Welcome from Sacramento, Ca.

Riding is not just what I do but who I am.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 05:17 AM
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Welcome from Atlantic Canada. Love to see a pic of your ride.

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2007 Vulcan Nomad
V&H exhaust

2000 V Star 1100 Classic (Sold)
All stock except for:
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Before making any gearing changes I had noticed that out on the interstate when rolling say at 80 actual miles per hour that I only had a li'l throttle left and it didn't seem AT ALL to get in to it when I applied that throttle....very lame sounding when applying that little bit of additional throttle. The top speed was about 94 mph. Suspected that it was starving for air and fuel at these higher rpms. Went home and thought about it awhile and decided that this bike is fuel injected instead of carbureted and thus doesn't have any micro fuel passage ways(idle circuits) in a carburetor to clog if some dirty air got in. The air intake passage way is just an open port all the way from the throttle bodies to the intake valve except where the injector sticks out into the port. I then was in shock looking at the air filter and how little of area of filter material there was; and thought to myself there MUST be quite a pressure drop in air pressure across that filter. KNOW I WILL BE AUSTRASIZED FOR THIS...but no more air filter for my machine. Only dust storms I see are usually around construction sites so as I approach I speed up while I'm still in the clean air, and then clutch it and let her idle as I go through the dusty area. This is the fourth metric bike I'm working on wearing out and none of them have ever quit because the cylinder was all scored up from dirt. In fact the last two had valve trains that broke. Maybe I'll watch my oil to see if it's getting dirty more quickly than would be expected cuz of no filter; and change oil a li'l more frequently than recommended. Instantly after removing the air filter I picked up horsepower with the new top speed being 105 mph. So, evidently the fuel injection system was able to adjust to more air and add additional fuel to it. I'm looking to add more gear to this bike by adding an additional tooth to the front pulley if anybody want to trade for my 30 toother or donate one to me(hehe) . Before when my speedo read 80 mph I was actually running 72. Now when the speedo says 70 mph, I'm actually running 75.2 or very close to it. Odometer miles now need to be multiplied by 1.133 to get the acutal miles traveled on a tank. With the stock equipment I had found that the miles indicated on the odometer needed to be multiplied by .93 to get the actual. Was getting 46 - 47 mpg in the stock condition if I kept it under 70 mph. On the first tank with these mods and a very windy day and the front touring fairing off and keeping it under 75 mph it made 51 mpg. I'm thinking I'll get 52 on all my trips in the future with this gearing and not testing it by goosing the throttle.

Has anyone found that there is any significant airflow restriction in the airbox round air inlet APART from the air filter itself?

to the member above commenting on the gearing jump....I probably went slightly OVER 15% in one jump because with only a 4.5 inch rear rim the P215 tire probably is slightly taller than the 27.9 inches tall indicated on tire size chart(probably designed for a 6 inch rim) compared with the 25.8 inches for the stock Bridgestone Excedra 170/70/16 .

https://tiresize.com/chart/
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Last edited by bigpig41; 10-03-2018 at 09:52 PM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 07:05 AM
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a couple things:

the air filter on motorcycles is very small compared to the things they put on cars. A little bit of dust in the filter cuts the air flow noticeably. I have found on two Vstar bikes now if your air filter is not white like paper then it is restricting airflow. Putting a new filter in the bike will make it run better, and put your top speed back where it should be.

The fuel injection on most motorcycles (including yours) is not a closed loop self adjusting system that looks at the O2 sensor and makes gradual long term changes to the fuel/air mixture. The FI on most motorcycles is simply replacing the jets in the carbs with injectors into the cylinders. The amount of fuel it squirts is totally mapped based on throttle position, engine RPM and maybe a couple of temperature sensors. It has no way of knowing if its running rich or lean, and no way to correct the mixture by itself. The improvement you saw by taking the air cleaner out completely was from removing the restriction of the dirty air filter that was in there. Your engine has not adjusted to running with no air filter. The factory fuel mapping is set for a bike with a clean air filter, the stock air box, and stock exhaust.

If you put a different air filter pod and/or exhaust on the bike you need to have the map flashed for the new configuration.

It is now running lean, which will eventually burn holes thru the top of your pistons. Its not the little bit of dust you have to worry about, its the very lean fuel/air ratio burning holes in your pistons.

The other thing, I cannot recommend running any engine without an air filter anywhere, unless you are just testing to see if the performance was blocked by a dirty filter for a few miles. The air filter keeps out more than just fine dust, which will end up in the combustion chamber and in your oil. It also keeps out things like sand and bugs (I have seen yellow jackets make nests in the airbox of un-used motorcycles.)

The air filter is necessary if you want your bike to last 100,000 miles on the odo. Put a stock air filter back in and your bike will go well over 100mph. My stock 650 will do 105. If you want more HP get an air pod and filter, a hi flow exhaust, and remap your fuel injection to match the new intake and exhaust.

If you want to go 140mph get a Royal Star (1300 water cooled V4).

Seriously: if I was looking to buy a used motorcycle and it had no air filter Id walk.

On the tire, if Im reading your post right you gained 2" in diameter on the rear tire. Have you tried to compress the rear suspension all the way to make sure it wont bottom out into the fender (or the wires... screws under the fender) ?

This was being discussed in a thread about putting a 60 profile tire on the new Venture bikes instead of the 55 that its spec'd for. No one really proposed a good way to bottom out the rear suspension and measure the clearance.

BTW, I like your hands-on approach to making your motorcycle your own bike.

Last edited by KCW; 10-04-2018 at 07:32 AM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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KCW: Thank you for your input. Are you positive about the "fuel injection system not being a closed loop that continually makes adjustments off the oxygen sensor readings?; as I was wondering about that. There is no mass airflow sensor? Not questioning you at all cuz I haven't researched it at all and don't that much about it...is your opinion from the service manual or some other research? I ask because that means one might be able to correct the overly lean stock condition by boring the orifices in the injectors miniscule increments at a time with the greatest risk being the purchase of two new injectors or used ones. Many modern water cooled bikes are pushing the limits of compression ratio up to the 13:1 range on better gas than we are required to run, but those motors have less hot spots in the cylinder to cause detonation because of the water cooling. We are dealing with a motor that is only at 9:1 static ratio. It's only producing 50 horsepower because of its extremely poor induction system is only partially filling the cylinder with air at anything above moderate rpm . If we had a torque curve for this motor we would see the torque dropping off significantly with rpm increase because it's not breathing. When I was testing for top end it is really as if I were dealing with a motor with only about 6 or 7 to one compression ratio as the 14.5 pounds per square inch of atmospheric pressure simply isn't enough to fill the cylinder with air in those few milliseconds of time the intake stroke must occur over at higher rpms. We only get our 9:1 compression ratio when the pistons are moving slow enough that there is a long enough physical amount of time for atomospheric pressure to push down thorugh all the restrictions to get the cylinder completely full. Otherwise you still have a partial vacuum area in the cylinder after the intake valve smacks shut. Thus, I don't believe the typical heat problem from a lean mixture is an issue here. Were dealing with a motor STARVING for air/fuel mixture and thus only producing half the typical horsepower from a powerplant that size. Tjus I also don't believe there are big power gains waiting to be unharnessed just from correcting the stock overly lean condition. the problem is filling the cylinder full at any rpms above moderate rpm.

Guess the only way other than the top speed test to prove the stock clean air filter is restrictive would be to use what is called a pitot tube pressure measurement on both sides of the air filter element in the air box to see. If the big round plastic intake hole in the back of the airbox isn't the limiting factor then the placement first of a tiny plastic line down in the airbox surrounding the filter and the other end hooked up to a vacuum gauge up on your handlebars should read NO vacuum at max load/wide open top speed as the hole in the airbox in the side next to the engine should supply all the air the filter element can demand . Then tear your airbox down again and move the pitot tube anywhere inside the filter element close to where the throttle plates are but of course not touching them and run the plastic pitot tube under the same rubber seal that seals the filter element and back up to the handlebars.....NOW I'M NEARLY 100% sure you will find that at top speed the vacuum gauge would show some vacuum as the valves, intake ports,intake manifold,throttle body bores are able to transmit enough of the "infinate air demand" in the cylinders with increasing rpm out to the filter element which it is not capable of transmiting that same volume of air per minute so a vacuum is registered. You could do this with the pitot tube all the way along the intake tract up to the intake valves to find where the restriction is.

My last two jap bikes quit at around 95K miles and both had a very easy life. this is my point exactly that let a horsefly or whatever bug wants to run itself right through the entire intake tract and into the cylinder to be combusted(he he a new way to get ridda the bastards!) and unless he were big nuff to get stuck somewhere along the way he would just be shot out the exhaust if there were anything left of him.

About tire clearance: I'm about 240 pounds and before changing tires I had turned the shock to its stiffest position and was happy with it. Have been worried that if I put a second rider on I might be hitting if I struck a dip in the road. With the huge tire on I haven't hit yet but the closest impingement would be on the right side of the bike where if you reach under there with your index fingers you can feel that aluminum brace that holds up the fender. I clearanced a little by sticking a carbide tip on the end of a simple 3/8 variable speed drill and it looks now like the tire would possible slide down past that brace without hitting or aleast it would be 1.5 inches DOWN from the lateral tread portion that meets the road. I'm listening and looking for gouges in the tire but am amazed so far how resilient the suspension is.

I must state that the tire mod so far has been even a much better mod than I could have ever imagined as it killed a couple birds with one stone and provided a couple benefits I hadn't even though of.

-this nonsense of the floorboards rubbing the road is overwith
-it seems to ride softer and better than with the motorcycle tire
-provides a slightly bigger lean angle on the kickstand
-ended this feeling of CONSTANTLY needing to shift all the time when leaving a stoplight I'm one that does the great majority of my shifting without the clutch and by just letting off the throttle slightly to take the load off the gears before moviing the shift lever. BEFORE, the bike shifted the easiest at only about 12 mph from 1st to 2nd gear because there wasn't enough spread in the transmission gears and this caused me to literally be needing to shift from low to second before I even go my feet up on the pegs after leaving the stoplight. Now, it's more like 18 or twenty mph when your ready to shift from low to second.
-this tire was purchased at a used tire dealer service station conversion tyope business which every town has for $25.00 . Now more of this $140.00 nonsense.

Last edited by bigpig41; 10-04-2018 at 05:19 PM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 06:10 PM
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the last time I looked into it the two motorcycle manufacturers that have a fully closed loop fuel injection system are Harley Davidson (Dephi system) and BMW. The new Venture has a limited closed loop, and maybe the FJR1300 - they will slowly adjust a little bit based on the O2 sensor reading, but it does not store the change - next time you start the bike up it goes back to the factory default.

This is a real plus for HD bikes - you can put after market exhaust on the bike and it will tune itself to the new airflow after a few tanks of gas. Im nearly certain that none of the other Vstar bikes have any closed loop feedback going on.

This is a big thing for people that modify their bikes - you can get a module that will reprogram the fuel/air map in your ECM, and let you play with the settings (no need to be messing with your injectors), or you can send your ECM to places like "Ivan's", tell him what intake pod and exhaust you have on the bike, and he will re-flash the fuel map to increase the amount of fuel the injectors fire into the cylinders.

You are right about the amount of air that can get into a stock Vstar bike. The engineers at Yamaha setup the air and fuel system to get the targeted HP and torque curves they wanted for the model. My VS650 and Royal Star 1300 are both stock, the 650 is 40hp, the Royal Star is 74HP (engine output). There are a lot of us out here that ride our bikes stock, and like them just as they came from the factory.

If you want to modify your 950 you can get more than 50HP out of it, easily. The air intake seems to be the single biggest improvement, then the exhaust, then you start looking at cams and a bore kit. For each of those you would need to get the "power commander" module to allow you to change the amount of fuel injected, or send your ECM to one of the mod shops for a one-time map change.

I did not catch that is a car tire - a lot of people get frustrated spending $200 to have a motorcycle tire put on their bike, and replacing it every 10 to 15k miles. I get that, If you like the way it rides I dont have any problem with that.

Motorcycles are in theory suppose to be less expensive to operate, so anyone trying to get the cost per mile down is doing it with the right vehicle.

If you are going to run the bike with no air filter, pull the plugs out in about 200 miles and google what a rich, normal and lean burning spark plug should look like. If the plug looks like its being consumed (the lean plug photos) the same thing is happening to your valves and the crown of your pistons. If thats happening then get the power commander or whatever module lets you adjust your fuel injection ratios and correct it. It will be way cheaper than burnt valves or pistons.

Last edited by KCW; 10-04-2018 at 06:18 PM.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 06:22 PM
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spark plug photos - I love this guy:

https://www.ladamoscow.com/single-po...3-5f4fd1d3f542
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