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Discussion Starter #1
i rarely use 1st gear for anything other than just starting the engine. even in bumper traffic, which Austin has a LOT of, i usually just stay in 2nd gear because it's one less gear to have to change in and out of. actually, i was in bumper traffic with a buddy of mine recently and i could just hear him shifting in and out of 1st/2nd constantly and i wondered why anyone would subject themselves to that when they can just stay in 2nd?
 

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Some bike's (cruisers) have the low end torque needed to take off in second. I can do this on my 650 at will. It will lope along in 5 th gear at 25 to 30 mph. IF I want it to.

Other bikes suffer with this. Or the riders are so used to downshifting all the way to first as a form of habit. Like it has to take off in first.

A good majority of bikes will take off in second if the clutch and gas is played out correctly .:D:cool:
 

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That sounds like a good way to learn how to quickly restart the engine because you killed it at a traffic light. BTW, All of those horns honking should not affect your performance.

The 1300 with its gear ratios needs a low gear to overcome the inertia of the 730 lbs + the fat little rider (Me). :) You could slip the clutch but then you can have premature clutch failures also. Hmm?
 

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Thats true but the idea that Bevo had was when in traffic that everyone is moving slowly in.

Yes taking off slowly in second gear may keep some drivers behind you
ready to toss the middle finger at you.

And getting 730 lbs + rider weight moving along may in fact make first gear a mandatory go to...

Many different combo's can take place, no one size fits all this time...
 

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At an engine speed of 2500 rpms the 1300 is going an actual 29.6 mph. The idle speed in second is 11.8 mph. Second gear starts are brutal without an autoclutch considering the engine prefers to be at or above 2500 rpms (unmodified). By contrast a 650 can only do 55 mph in third or above and is turning 1200 rpms more than a 1300 at that speed in 5th gear.

Point is, different bikes, different gearing. The taller gearing on some bikes like the 1300 can be awkward in town when one gear lugs and the other races. The 950 falls somewhere between the 650 and 1300 in gearing.

That said, how slow were you going? I shift around 25 mph and don't go back again. But, can find myself shifting between second and third before getting tired of it and staying in second.

http://s180867979.onlinehome.us/html/yamaha_speed_rpmcheck.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #6
using that chart, there is only a 200rpm difference in 2nd gear at 10mph between the 950 and the 1300. you do have to feather the clutch some in stop/go traffic, but you're not going to prematurely cause clutch failure any more than constantly using your clutch to shift back and forth between 1st/2nd gears. just try it before you knock it; maybe the engine won't lug nearly as much as you think it will.

as for starting from stop in 2nd, i have absolutely no problem leaving everyone behind me in dust. i can't imagine the 1300 struggling too much.
 

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I've put close to 4,000 miles on the 1300 now and it is much more sensitive to lugging than my 950 was. The difference in gearing took a lot of learning. Yes, I've tried it and it lugs much more than the 950 at slow speeds. Feathering the clutch would help but, it would require a lot of time in the friction zone to operate in this mode.

Possibly the recent thread on a couple of the forums in which a guy had used the friction zone excessively and suffered a clutch failure had an effect on my thinking.

1st gear - anyone use it? Yep, I do and I will continue to do so.

Augie :)
 

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The 1300 does not do as well off idle unmodified compared to the 950, IMO. The lugging is terrible when cold and although it improves significantly when warmed up if I was running that speed I wouldn't leave first. I'm sure an FMS or Jack's O2 would help, but I don't have either installed. It's not a matter of trying it to see. I have tried it and feathering is not the answer to being in a gear wrong for the engine speed.

In contrast the Harley Big Twin is amazing at parade speeds. It puts the 1300 to shame in that respect. No snatch. No slop. No lugging even under 1000 rpms.
 

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Harley engines are designed to have loads of torque down low in the rev range. However they run out of steam earlier as the revs climb.

It is a design that allows them to run very slow with decent power to move along a lot of weight even when riding two up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
you're both still talking like you haven't tried it. "if i was running that speed i wouldn't leave first" and "Feathering the clutch would help but..."

again, don't knock it until you try it. you both state you already know your 1300 is not very capable of doing such but i'm thinking their riders may not be capable. if you don't want to do it, fine. but saying the bike can't could be selling your ride short.

and you keep referring to a clutch failure that only occurred after, almost 60,000 miles on it with absolutely NO discernible issues, it was then subjected to parade torture that no one would ever recommend; an hour of engine redlining while repeatedly slamming the bike into gear. this is what caused the clutch failure. not the previous 60,000 miles. i think the fact that i've barely used the 1st gear for nearly 60,000 miles in Austin traffic (currently 8th worst city in the country for traffic according to Forbes) feathering the clutch like i described above is a testament that it doesn't cause early clutch failure, at least if you know what you're doing.
 

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you're both still talking like you haven't tried it. "if i was running that speed i wouldn't leave first" and "Feathering the clutch would help but..."

again, don't knock it until you try it. you both state you already know your 1300 is not very capable of doing such but i'm thinking their riders may not be capable. if you don't want to do it, fine. but saying the bike can't could be selling your ride short.

and you keep referring to a clutch failure that only occurred after, almost 60,000 miles on it with absolutely NO discernible issues, it was then subjected to parade torture that no one would ever recommend; an hour of engine redlining while repeatedly slamming the bike into gear. this is what caused the clutch failure. not the previous 60,000 miles. i think the fact that i've barely used the 1st gear for nearly 60,000 miles in Austin traffic (currently 8th worst city in the country for traffic according to Forbes) feathering the clutch like i described above is a testament that it doesn't cause early clutch failure, at least if you know what you're doing.

"Well, here's what I know." I own a 1300. Ride a 1300 daily. I try to be as good a rider as possible. I try not to be condescending to others on the forums. Have a nice day. Augie
 

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I use whatever gear seems appropriate for the speed I am traveling. That being said if I am stopped with my feet on the ground the bike is in 1st gear. If I'm still rolling slightly I'm usually in second. I have started off from a stop in second a few times simply be mistake so I know it can be done but it's just not something I practice. Now if I was in stop and go traffic daily I may feel different but for me shifting gears is part of the motorcycle experience. If I didn't want to shift gears I wouldn't be in/on a vehicle with a manual tranny. If I were going to skip a gear to cut down on the shifting I would do it on the high end where it has much less stress on everything. We all have our own opinions and different way of accomplishing the same thing I guess.
 

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The 1300 lugs quite a bit if you try to take off in second. There also seems to be a long jump from 1st to 2nd. Taking off in second on the 1300 would require a lot of slipping and maybe heat up the oil too much if done too frequently. It's a similar principal in automatic transmissions on a car. The sooner the converter locks up, the cooler the oil will be. So it stands to reason that you would want your gear to "lock up" as soon as possible?? Plus, I would think the oil would need to be changed more frequently if rode like this very often. I dunno..... just trying to reason through it. Made my brain hurt a little :)
 

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Harley engines are designed to have loads of torque down low in the rev range. However they run out of steam earlier as the revs climb.

It is a design that allows them to run very slow with decent power to move along a lot of weight even when riding two up.
That's precisely what I was saying.

The Harley is what the 1300 is not. Anyone actually riding a 1300 knows these issues. I can ride the 1300 at 50 mph in fifth but it's a terrible idea to accelerate at that point as it will buck and whine without transferring much to the wheels. It's no different in lower gears at similar rpms.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That's precisely what I was saying.

The Harley is what the 1300 is not. Anyone actually riding a 1300 knows these issues. I can ride the 1300 at 50 mph in fifth but it's a terrible idea to accelerate at that point as it will buck and whine without transferring much to the wheels. It's no different in lower gears at similar rpms.
THE harley? not sure what you mean. any and all harleys perform that same way?
 

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i rarely use 1st gear for anything other than just starting the engine. even in bumper traffic, which Austin has a LOT of, i usually just stay in 2nd gear because it's one less gear to have to change in and out of. actually, i was in bumper traffic with a buddy of mine recently and i could just hear him shifting in and out of 1st/2nd constantly and i wondered why anyone would subject themselves to that when they can just stay in 2nd?
A clarifying question...do you mean bumper to bumper traffic that continues to move OR do you mean stop and go bumper to bumper traffic?

There is a world of difference in my mind regarding the use of 1st gear.
 

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I haven't tried taking off in 2nd gear with my 1100 but I'm gonna give it a try to see how it works out. When I'm in bumper to bumper traffic I usually stay in 1st gear unless we get rolling pretty good then I'll shift to 2nd. I know I get people pissed off at me because I'm not on the ass of the car in front of me but I don't care. I'll still creep on up in 1st gear until I get through the traffic.
 

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THE harley? not sure what you mean. any and all harleys perform that same way?
The Harley from the previous quote. To be more specific, pretty much anything from the start of the Evolution. For all of it's faults, it's a great engine for bikes riding parades. Not all bikes can or even want to lay claim to that. The 1300 is certainly one I don't want to ride in another 1500 bike parade.
 

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The Harley from the previous quote. To be more specific, pretty much anything from the start of the Evolution. For all of it's faults, it's a great engine for bikes riding parades. Not all bikes can or even want to lay claim to that. The 1300 is certainly one I don't want to ride in another 1500 bike parade.
You sound like a guy that not only hasn't ridden a Harley, but a Yamaha forum cheer leader person that really is not well informed.

I would never ride a parade. Boring. But....If I did...I guarantee you it would not be on my Harley. It would probably overheat. Maybe not? But I wouldnt do it.

Other than that it really is a pretty darn nice motorcycle. No issues yet with mine.

Forum people trash Harleys. But its OK when the metrics fail they get a pass...which they do fail like all mechanical things. You can clearly see that lurking this forum.

Its just the nature of the beast. All bikes have their pluses and minuses but none are perfect.

Ride safe.
 

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Very true jbasile, Each bike , mfg, model has some issue at some point in time.

I had a friend I used to work with a few years back that rode an older
BMW. The bike was over 25 years old and was bone stock.
It had over 100 K miles on it. The bike looked worn and dated but he
said it had only received normal maintenance over the years he's owned it.
Well I got a chance to ride it for about 15 miles and it was as smooth and well ballanced as a new bike. Very nice.
I was floored by how well it rode.

So some do fair better than others. He got a good one. :D
 
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