Yamaha Starbike Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone. I hate to join the forum with problems, but i'm out of ideas. I searched the forum but I haven't found anything that sounds like whats going on with my bike.


I recently bought my first bike. i have built and worked on cars my whole life but i am just now venturing into building my first bike.

Ok here we go. I have a 2005 650 custom with 23000 miles. I purchased the bike knowing it didn't run. The person i bought it from didn't know anything about bikes either and decided it easier to buy a new bike than fix this one. I am starting to think he was right.

I was told that the bike would not turn over. That was all the information i was given about the bike before purchase.

I have had the bike 3 days now with no real progress.

Electronic start:
I turn the key fuel relay clicks a few times, engine light goes out after a few seconds neutral light comes on. turn signal/driving lights come on (headlight stays off). turn the gas on pull choke, raise bike off stand, pull clutch, press starter button......... NOTHING. No clicks, no pops, no grinds, just nothing.

Trouble shooting process:
Remove starter (not to self buy a drain pan...... and kitty litter bike starters aren't like car starters). jump starter when off the bike starter spins, put back on bike.

test continuity on starter wire to solenoid: test good
test continuity on solenoid: test good, also jumped solenoid starter would not engage while on bike.
replace old battery with brand new Yamaha battery.
test kickstand switch: test good
test clutch switch: test good
test kill switch: continuity test good
test start button: continuity good, jumped: starter would not engage


Push start attempt:
I put the bike back together after chasing all the circuits i could think of. My wife helped me push the bike to the top of the big hill beside our house..(note to self check on wife laying in the ditch almost to the top of the hill).
turned the key on, gas on choke out, 2nd gear, clutch in coast to 10/11 mph, release clutch.... The back tire locks up and bike skids to a stop. The engine never attempted to turn over.
tried everything a second time in 1st gear with the same results.

side note/question
when the bike is in neutral it will coast/roll easily
when the bike is in gear with the clutch pulled in the bike feels heavy/hard to push.
when in gear and clutch is pulled on the hill the bike would not roll unless pushed
after a short push it will start rolling easier.
Is this normal with bikes?

I am completely out of ideas. I really want to fix this myself but I am at a loss. Is it time to take it to the shop?
Thanks in advance for any help.
 

·
Super Moderator "Loose Nut"
Joined
·
5,397 Posts
A few more things to check:
1. Check battery negative cable. Know to corrode at frame connection causing weird electrical issues.
2. Might be new battery but check amp draw when trying to start bike. Should not drop more than about a volt.
3. Check starter relay.
4. Check all fuses.
You seem to be good with checking continuity so these should be easy to do. My first guess would be bad ground, it can be common. Follow the link in my signature, you will find lots of good info on the V*1100 but much is the same for the 650. If someone will give the link to the 650 wiki page it might help him as I don't have it. Good luck and repost results.
 

·
Super Moderator "Loose Nut"
Joined
·
5,397 Posts
Hey, I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Anyway, welcome. Post some pics of your ride, we like pictures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Hey everyone. I hate to join the forum with problems, but i'm out of ideas. I searched the forum but I haven't found anything that sounds like whats going on with my bike.


I recently bought my first bike. i have built and worked on cars my whole life but i am just now venturing into building my first bike.

Ok here we go. I have a 2005 650 custom with 23000 miles. I purchased the bike knowing it didn't run. The person i bought it from didn't know anything about bikes either and decided it easier to buy a new bike than fix this one. I am starting to think he was right.

I was told that the bike would not turn over. That was all the information i was given about the bike before purchase.

I have had the bike 3 days now with no real progress.

Electronic start:
I turn the key fuel relay clicks a few times, engine light goes out after a few seconds neutral light comes on. turn signal/driving lights come on (headlight stays off). turn the gas on pull choke, raise bike off stand, pull clutch, press starter button......... NOTHING. No clicks, no pops, no grinds, just nothing.

Trouble shooting process:
Remove starter (not to self buy a drain pan...... and kitty litter bike starters aren't like car starters). jump starter when off the bike starter spins, put back on bike.

test continuity on starter wire to solenoid: test good
test continuity on solenoid: test good, also jumped solenoid starter would not engage while on bike.
replace old battery with brand new Yamaha battery.
test kickstand switch: test good
test clutch switch: test good
test kill switch: continuity test good
test start button: continuity good, jumped: starter would not engage


Push start attempt:
I put the bike back together after chasing all the circuits i could think of. My wife helped me push the bike to the top of the big hill beside our house..(note to self check on wife laying in the ditch almost to the top of the hill).
turned the key on, gas on choke out, 2nd gear, clutch in coast to 10/11 mph, release clutch.... The back tire locks up and bike skids to a stop. The engine never attempted to turn over.
tried everything a second time in 1st gear with the same results.

side note/question
when the bike is in neutral it will coast/roll easily
when the bike is in gear with the clutch pulled in the bike feels heavy/hard to push.
when in gear and clutch is pulled on the hill the bike would not roll unless pushed
after a short push it will start rolling easier.
Is this normal with bikes?

I am completely out of ideas. I really want to fix this myself but I am at a loss. Is it time to take it to the shop?
Thanks in advance for any help.

So when you push started it, the wheel locked up and the engine never moved or turned over? Sounds like a seized engine to me. All bikes with wet clutches when cold will have resistance in gear when pulling the clutch, it is the drag of the cold oil on the clutch. But no engine movement is the alarming issue here.

This right here (The person i bought it from didn't know anything about bikes either and decided it easier to buy a new bike than fix this one. I am starting to think he was right.)

Tells me maybe the owner knew the engine was seized, who knows. Pull the plugs and see if it will turn then you will know for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
Welcome Ben, from southwestern PA. Congrats on ye new ride. Sorry yer havin problems. Sounds like maybe starter relay may not be workin. Check connection from button to relay. Then check relay. As far as the engine not turning, Baron has a sound suggestion. Although maybe put bout teaspoon of oil in cylinders also since it hasn't run for awhile first. And since it hasn't run, the clutches are probly stuck from sitting so long. You shoulda tried 3rd or 4th gear to catch on hill. May have boken loose. You could also try rocking the bike back and forth while in gear, with clutch out, to break the clutches loose. Good luck in gettin her figured out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Update of the day:
Thanks for the replies.

I checked the ground cable, starter relay, and did a voltage drop test on the starting system. There's less than .02 volts drop.
I pulled the plugs this evening and put some penetrating oil in the cylinders and rocked the bike in fifth gear for about 10 minutes while intermittently pressing the starter button. Still no change.

I'll rock it some more before I go to work in the morning.

The general consensus seems to all point to a seizure some where in the engine unfortunately.

On a plus note There's a local bike mechanic about 2 miles from me that has offered to diagnose it for me for $60. If i cant get it going by Friday I think i'll take him up on his offer.

Here's a pic of my new found headache.

I'll try to update when I know more tomorrow.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
so after you put the new fully charged battery on you hit the starter button and the starter does nothing as in not spin.when you removed the starter and test jumped it it spun.

Yes
The starter will spin when its not on the bike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
does it click?....if it does not even click i would check continuity between the start button and the starter. or relay. try starting a cold engine in neutral. the clutch plates could be stuck.
I've checked the continuity between the start button and the starter relay and did a voltage drop test I got a .02 volt drop at the starter when the start button was pushed.

I've tried neutral starting also there's no difference between starting in gear or neutral.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
When you rocked the bike back and forth did the motor turn (wheels moved) because to me it sound like electrically you are okay since the starter runs when not connected to the bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,634 Posts
you've got two things to figure out

why the starter is not working. If the motor was seized the starter would still engage and then stall trying to spin the stuck motor. That would cause a huge current drain, making the lights dim and the battery voltage drop. I dont know if there is a fuse between the battery and the starter but if the motor is seized it should have blown, cutting off the starter.

Take the little button off the cover on the left side of the engine, It has a slot that looks like a quarter will fit. there is a nut you turn to rotate the crankshaft when you are adjusting the valves. The engine on a Vstar 650 spins backwards, the opposite of the front wheel, so from the gear shift side where that cover is the motor turns clockwise.

DONT TURN THE NUT (ENGINE) counter clockwise. The chain tensioner will slack backwards and do bad things.

If you cannot EASILY turn the crank there with the bike in neutral, its seized. Dont put a breaker bar and all your weight on it! - if it wont turn something is very wrong.

Check that first, there is no point trying to engage the starter if the engine is seized.

I dont know off the top of my head if these engines will push the piston into the valves if a timing chain broke, if so that is one way to seize up the engine. Leaving the bike sit for years with water in the piston is another. Overheating is not likely because the bike is air cooled.... Its not likely to drop a valve with such low mileage.... its not likely that the engine is seized.

See if you can turn the engine with the nut, and we can go from there.

If you are not sure about all this I think the VS650 shop manual is out there on the internet: vstar_650_service_man.pdf. If you find it read the section on adjusting the valves to see how to spin the engine with that nut on the left side. Or try googling VS650 valve adjustment.

If the engine does rotate, regarding push starting the bike, yeah you can drag the tire in first or second gear, these bikes have very high ratios in the low gears - as the other poster said you might need to try it in 3 or 4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Todays update:

NO PROGRESS!! I didn't even get to pull the cover off the bike today. I got caught up at work on a new contract and before I knew it, it was 13 hours later. I would love to work on the bike but I have kind of neglected the kids and misses this week with the new bike taking center stage of my off time.

I'm going out of town for work the rest of the week. So it looks like I'll be putting it in the shop Friday. I talked with the mechanic/owner in the shop close to my house. He said that he'll diagnose it and let me use his shop to fix whats wrong with it as long as i buy the parts through him. So he'll find whats wrong with it, sell me the pats for cost, and teach me how to fix it. It doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

Ill post more when I know more.

Thanks to everyone that is offering their advice. I went on another forum and after over 100 views I still haven't had a reply to my problems. This forum seem like a great place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,634 Posts
let us know how it works out and what they find
otherwise this thread will be left hanging unresolved forever :^)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,315 Posts
to determine if lock up is in the engine, put it neutral and try to turn the 14mm flywheel bolt, remove the plugs first and don't go crazy with a breaker bar or you could snap the flywheel bolt, if it won't spin you'll be pulling the engine to find out why
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,634 Posts
to determine if lock up is in the engine, put it neutral and try to turn the 14mm flywheel bolt...
and ONLY turn it clockwise on the 650
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Sorry everyone I haven't abandoned you I promise. Work has goten hectic, I've done almost 72 hours this week and still have the weekend to go. So I haven't had any time for the bike. I did get by the shop earlier today with about an hour for some checks.

Todays update:

Pulled the cover and did a motor seize test: Motor will turn about 20 degrees in either direction but will not complete a full revolution.
It is not seized but something deeper seems to be stopping the motor from full revolution.

Thoughts at this point are... 1: bent rod 2: broken timing chain 3: combo of both.

I will hopefully know more on monday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,315 Posts
the biggest question is how much did a non running bike cost? that should tell you if it's worth fixing, used engines are fairly inexpensive for this bike as long as the rest of it is in good shape you might want to consider it
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top