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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since several OEM's are now recommending a 10w 30 motorcylce oil Amsoil will be bringing theirs to the market on August 1st. This oil will have all the same performance inhancements as their 10w 40's and 20w 50's have. Benefits like cooler running engine temperatures in both air cooled as well as liquid cooled engines, superior wear control, foaming control. viscosity stability for transmissions, wet clutch compatibility, reduced oil consumption. and excellent storage protection.
george
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Just give us a call to receive your forum member discount

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
Ok, can you spat out some bottom line cost per qt to those of us who are not internet savy?? And how much discount? Bottom line, what does a qt of Amsoil cost? Just wonder. Ride safe:D
(just wondered, where is the magical refinery that churns out the best of the best? Can't seem to locate it, at 26 or better a qt, one would think it would be easy to locate)
 

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Ok, can you spat out some bottom line cost per qt to those of us who are not internet savy?? And how much discount? Bottom line, what does a qt of Amsoil cost? Just wonder. Ride safe:D
(just wondered, where is the magical refinery that churns out the best of the best? Can't seem to locate it, at 26 or better a qt, one would think it would be easy to locate)


:D:eek::D:eek:
 

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Sugar Bear, your posted question is on my blackberry, but not on here. Interesting. (quote-unquote) "Ok, being unaware and backwoods, what does MDSR mean? Good, bad, the ugly?"

Guess that would depend on whom you ask.:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok, can you spat out some bottom line cost per qt to those of us who are not internet savy?? And how much discount? Bottom line, what does a qt of Amsoil cost? Just wonder. Ride safe:D
(just wondered, where is the magical refinery that churns out the best of the best? Can't seem to locate it, at 26 or better a qt, one would think it would be easy to locate)
Not sure where you get 26 or better per qt. but, it is not even close to that.

The "Magical Refinery" is in Superior, WI and has over 2.3 million gallons of storage.

Corporate Policy does not allow us to publicly post any pricing whether discounted or not.

Also, "Price per qt" varies with the amount you purchase. If you send me an email for pricing, include the amount of oil required per change and the make.odel of the vehicle so I can look up the filter for you.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
 

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Mobil 1 V-Twin Motorcycle oil, 10/40 & 20/50 on the shelf at Walmart for $8.96 a qt.(full synthetic) They also sell Fram Motorcycle filters for Star/Yamaha on the shelf for $6-$7 ea.

Harley Dealerships have Syn 3 on the shelf for $9.95 a qt. (a blend)

Star/Yamaha Dealerships have Yamaha Synthetic for $10 a qt. on the shelf.

Any of these choices you do not have to search for a Pyramid Dealer to buy your oil from. And they will advertise their prices to everyone all day long!

My 2cents!!:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Mobil 1 V-Twin Motorcycle oil, 10/40 & 20/50 on the shelf at Walmart for $8.96 a qt.(full synthetic) They also sell Fram Motorcycle filters for Star/Yamaha on the shelf for $6-$7 ea.

Harley Dealerships have Syn 3 on the shelf for $9.95 a qt. (a blend)

Star/Yamaha Dealerships have Yamaha Synthetic for $10 a qt. on the shelf.

Any of these choices you do not have to search for a Pyramid Dealer to buy your oil from. And they will advertise their prices to everyone all day long!

My 2cents!!
Thanks for your 2 cents.

Even though that is about what it is worth.

The Mobil 1 oils are very good oils. AMSOIL cost less per mile to use (than any you listed) therefore giving a lower Cost of Ownership.

Why anyone would run the worst filter on the market is beyond me though.

Too bad you don't understand the term "Pyramid" that you so easily threw out.

As for pricing. The AMSOIL pricing policy is to try and keep the Dealer Network on somewhat of a level playing field. Smaller Dealers cannot compete with me so it is in place to protect them.

I appreciated that when I was a low volume dealer and look back on it now where it is Great to be involved with a company that protects it's sales force. How many companies think about that instead of trying to cut your head off ?

Also, AMSOIL has in place policies to not only protect Dealers but, also Retail Accounts. This is why Wal-Mart and other large chains cannot buy Direct from AMSOIL. As matter of fact, no one can buy Direct, even the Manufacturers that use AMSOIL.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
 

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Thanks for your 2 cents.

Even though that is about what it is worth.

The Mobil 1 oils are very good oils. AMSOIL cost less per mile to use (than any you listed) therefore giving a lower Cost of Ownership.

Why anyone would run the worst filter on the market is beyond me though.

Too bad you don't understand the term "Pyramid" that you so easily threw out.

As for pricing. The AMSOIL pricing policy is to try and keep the Dealer Network on somewhat of a level playing field. Smaller Dealers cannot compete with me so it is in place to protect them.

I appreciated that when I was a low volume dealer and look back on it now where it is Great to be involved with a company that protects it's sales force. How many companies think about that instead of trying to cut your head off ?

Also, AMSOIL has in place policies to not only protect Dealers but, also Retail Accounts. This is why Wal-Mart and other large chains cannot buy Direct from AMSOIL. As matter of fact, no one can buy Direct, even the Manufacturers that use AMSOIL.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
2 cents. Hmmm.......i left my self open for that!:D

But Mobil 1 V-Twin being at least $4.00 a quart less than you, and at 5 qts. for my Strat Oil Change that's $20.00 plus tax I saved. And I have an excellent FULL SYNTHETIC oil in my bike that I can purchase off the shelf 24 hours a day at virtualy any Walmart!! WalMart and the "other" places quote prices to everyone 24 hours a day. No hiden agenda, no special price of the day, no this is good for today only, no how much do you want will determine how much i will charge you. Their products are available 24X7 to everyone, anywhere.

Also, being a Professional Engine Technician for the past 44 years I have NEVER personally seen a properly installed Fram Oil Filter cause an engine failure when the oil and filter were changed at recommended intervals.

Have a GREAT day!:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
2 cents. Hmmm.......i left my self open for that!:D

But Mobil 1 V-Twin being at least $4.00 a quart less than you, and at 5 qts. for my Strat Oil Change that's $20.00 plus tax I saved. And I have an excellent FULL SYNTHETIC oil in my bike that I can purchase off the shelf 24 hours a day at virtualy any Walmart!! WalMart and the "other" places quote prices to everyone 24 hours a day. No hiden agenda, no special price of the day, no this is good for today only, no how much do you want will determine how much i will charge you. Their products are available 24X7 to everyone, anywhere.

Also, being a Professional Engine Technician for the past 44 years I have NEVER personally seen a properly installed Fram Oil Filter cause an engine failure when the oil and filter were changed at recommended intervals.

Have a GREAT day!:)
Not sure how you are getting at least $4.00 per qt less than me when you said $8.99 for M-1. I am literally pennies off of that and if you figure it at cost per mile, I am close to half the price.

My prices do not vary from day to day or person to person. They are the same whenever and whoever. If you can't understand a company that protects it's Dealers, I don't know what to tell you.

I never said the Fram caused an engine failure (although they have). They do, however, cause an engine to wear out faster than with other filters due to inefficient Micron ratings.

BTW.... I have 2 Wal Marts minutes away and neither carry any Motorcyle oils.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
 

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Not sure how you are getting at least $4.00 per qt less than me when you said $8.99 for M-1. I am literally pennies off of that and if you figure it at cost per mile, I am close to half the price.

My prices do not vary from day to day or person to person. They are the same whenever and whoever. If you can't understand a company that protects it's Dealers, I don't know what to tell you.

I never said the Fram caused an engine failure (although they have). They do, however, cause an engine to wear out faster than with other filters due to inefficient Micron ratings.

BTW.... I have 2 Wal Marts minutes away and neither carry any Motorcyle oils.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
OK, now don't get all pissed and bent out of shape, nothing personal at all. But one has to wonder why a company would be more concerned with their dealers than with their cutomers:confused:
 

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I've looked at quite a few UOA's that people have posted online and it really depends on how often you intend to change oil to decide on which type to get. Oddly enough, if you change oil every 4K miles or less then the cheapest is the best, meaning using one of the HDEO's that are available, ie: Rotella T, etc. If you intend to go longer than 4K miles you should consider a synthetic.

BTW.... I have 2 Wal Marts minutes away and neither carry any Motorcyle oils.
Rotella T is rated for motorcycles and is at Wal-Mart. JASO MA
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
OK, now don't get all pissed and bent out of shape, nothing personal at all. But one has to wonder why a company would be more concerned with their dealers than with their cutomers

AMSOIL cares about both Dealers and Customers which is why they build The Best oil and filters you can buy.

As far as the Dealer part, Dealers built the company. No Dealers, no AMSOIL. The company is set up so no ne can buy Direct from AMSOIL and always has to go through a Dealer due to that.

Even Wal-Mart was turned down when they wanted to place over a $40 Million order. Takes a lot for company to walk away from an order like that to protect it's Dealer Network.

AMSOIL, although not perfect, really is a great company to be associated with. I have been with them since Feb. 1984.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've looked at quite a few UOA's that people have posted online and it really depends on how often you intend to change oil to decide on which type to get. Oddly enough, if you change oil every 4K miles or less then the cheapest is the best, meaning using one of the HDEO's that are available, ie: Rotella T, etc. If you intend to go longer than 4K miles you should consider a synthetic.


Rotella T is rated for motorcycles and is at Wal-Mart. JASO MA
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to keep facts straight.

It really does matter. Rotella has to start at almost a 50 weight because it shears so quickly. Which is one reason you need to watch your change interval.

Not all Diesel oils have a JASO MA so you need to watch specifications. A CG Rating, no higher, is required unless the JASO MA is present.

JASO MA does Not mean it is a Motorcycle oil. It just means it has a wet clutch rating whether in a M/C clutch or a conveyor gear box.

M/C oils, in particular AMSOIL, have specific clutch performance additives, anti-wear additives and anti-rust and corrosion inhibitors along with additives to make the oil "cling" to the cylinders to help alleviate dry starts during short periods of non-riding.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
 

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It really does matter. Rotella has to start at almost a 50 weight because it shears so quickly. Which is one reason you need to watch your change interval.
You couldn''t be farther from the truth. If you will look in "Bob is the oil guy" forum, under motorcycles, what you find is that rotella keeps its viscosity even after 4K miles. The amsoil doesn't do bad eilther but you would expect it to keep its viscosity at 4 k miles.


M/C oils, in particular AMSOIL, have specific clutch performance additives, anti-wear additives and anti-rust and corrosion inhibitors along with additives to make the oil "cling" to the cylinders to help alleviate dry starts during short periods of non-riding.
Some people actually have problems which appear to be related to synthetic oils such as cam shafts going flat and seals shrinking. I have no proof of this just people talking. Bottom line is that you cannot prove that synthetic oils can protect the engine any better with UOA's than a good HDEO. They simple do not. They will keep the engine about 4 degrees cooler however. I don't feel that the temperture difference will make a difference.

In the end a person should choose there oil by first decideing on an oil change cycle and next the way they will use thier machinc. After you've considered that then its time to choose which oil to use.
 

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Here are some UOA's to look at

Here are three consecutive UOA's of Shell Rotella T in my 2007 GL1800 Goldwing. The progression runs left to right ... the first UOA is the first column, etc.

The bike came from the dealer with Honda GN-4. I ran that for perhaps 600 miles, then swapped to Amsoil 10W-40. Rotella went in at 2,724 and you see the rest.

To my untrained eye it looks pretty good. Viscosity in grade each time, but just barely. OCI at 3K seems very safe. I'm happy to see he Iron and Copper numbers coming down.

Tin introduced itself a 2ppm ... not sure what that means and if I should care. Probably not. Thoughts?

...................... First .... Second ...... Third
.................... Rotella ... Rotella .... Rotella
..................... 15W-40 ..... 5W-40 ..... 15W-40
Oil ................... CJ-4 ..... CI-4+ ....... CJ-4

Miles on Oil ......... 2,724 ..... 2,995 ...... 2,774
Miles on Bike ........ 6,386 ..... 9,381 ..... 12,155

Aluminum ................. 6 ......... 5 .......... 5
Chromium ................. 0 ......... 1 .......... 1
Iron .................... 12 ........ 12 .......... 9
Copper .................. 20 ........ 17 ......... 14
Lead ..................... 1 ......... 1 .......... 1
Tin ...................... 0 ......... 0 .......... 2
Molybdenum .............. 17 ......... 6 .......... 3
Nickel ................... 0 ......... 0 .......... 0
Manganese ................ 1 ......... 1 .......... 0
Silver ................... 0 ......... 0 .......... 0
Titanium ................. 0 ......... 0 .......... 0
Potassium ................ 5 ......... 4 .......... 5
Boron ................... 20 ......... 4 ......... 19
Silicon .................. 8 ......... 8 .......... 8
Sodium ................... 3 ......... 5 .......... 3
Calcium ............... 2021 ...... 3213 ....... 2414
Magnesium ............... 16 ........ 13 .......... 8
Phosphorus ............. 868 ...... 1114 ........ 993
Zinc .................. 1085 ...... 1441 ....... 1190
Barium ................... 1 ......... 0 .......... 0

[email protected] .............. 69.5 ...... 69.8 ....... 69.8
[email protected] ............... n/a ..... 12.91 ...... 12.91

SUS "should" -- 68 to 78
cST "should" -- 12.4 to 15.3
_________________________
2007 Goldwing + Rotella T 15W-40 CJ-4. It works; I'm happy.
some more this time with amsoil in a BMW KT1300

...................Silkolene...Castrol......Amsoil......Amsoil........Torco
...................10w-40......5w-40........10w-40......10w-40........10w-40

MI/HR on Oil.......2,088.......1,332.......1,980.......2,300......... 700
MI/HR on Unit..................15,882......14,550......12,500........ 10,100

Sample Date........6/22/10.....12/26/09....08/02/09.....03/01/09......6/26/2008

Make Up Oil Added..0 qts.......0 qts.......0 qts........0qts..........0 qts
ELEMENTS PPM
ALUMINUM 6 8 11 9 5
CHROMIUM 4 4 6 3 2
IRON 38 31 35 23 14
COPPER 49 12 17 13 11
LEAD 5 2 2 2 3
TIN 0 2 3 0 1
MOLYBDENUM 134 13 46 43 52
NICKEL 0 0 1 0 0
MANGANESE 1 1 1 1 0
SILVER 1 0 0 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 2 4 3 1 1
BORON 44 44 7 16 33
SILICON 21 6 15 6 14
SODIUM 3 3 4 3 1
CALCIUM 2139 1248 3156 2635 1716
MAGNESIUM 435 954 37 13 10
PHOSPHORUS 989 1127 1177 1080 1135
ZINC 1262 1271 1498 1223 1392
BARIUM 0 0 1 0 0




SUS Viscosity @ 210°F...62.4.....58.1........67.1........62.4.......61.9
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C...10.88....9.69........12.18.......10.88......10.74
Flashpoint in °F........385......320.........415.........320........355
Fuel %..................<0.5.....2.8.........<0.5........2.8........1.0
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Water % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Insolubles % 0.3 0.2 0.5 0.2 0.2
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You couldn''t be farther from the truth. If you will look in "Bob is the oil guy" forum, under motorcycles, what you find is that rotella keeps its viscosity even after 4K miles. The amsoil doesn't do bad eilther but you would expect it to keep its viscosity at 4 k miles.

Also, if you look in Bitog, you will find analysis reports that show Rotella sheared to very light 30 wgt, almost a 20, at just over 3000.

Some people actually have problems which appear to be related to synthetic oils such as cam shafts going flat and seals shrinking. I have no proof of this just people talking. Bottom line is that you cannot prove that synthetic oils can protect the engine any better with UOA's than a good HDEO. They simple do not. They will keep the engine about 4 degrees cooler however. I don't feel that the temperture difference will make a difference.

It has nothing to do with "synthetic" it has to do with using an oil with a low ZDDP content. All AMSOIL M/C oils have over 1400 PPM of zinc which is the anti-wear additive for flat tappet cams.

Even most diesel oils have had to reduce the ZDDP content.

In summer temps, the oil temp on my Touring Bike is 30 degrees cooler than with a petroleum oil. Every 10 degree drop is critical. Any drop is good.


In the end a person should choose there oil by first decideing on an oil change cycle and next the way they will use thier machinc. After you've considered that then its time to choose which oil to use.

I run 10,000 miles on the change interval in my Touring bike, verified by analysis, 8000/1 yr on my Yamaha and 8000/1 yr on my Honda.
The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
 
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