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Discussion Starter #1
hi, can any one give me info on buying stronger clutch springs for my 950, its all adjusted correctly 1/8 free play at the lever, its got 2k on it and im running 10-50 fully synthetic oil. its barely perceptable but its happening inthe top gears when im running it hard through the gears. any help would be apreciated. john. UK.
 

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Is your oil "Energy Conserving"? That is pretty new to have the clutch slip...
 

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DO NOT use full synthetic oil of any kind. It is not kind to fiber plate wet clutches. That's probably why your clutch is slipping with so few miles. Use a regular castor base oil in the range of 10W-40 or 20W-50 just like the owners manual and engine designers suggest. There's a good chance your fiber and steel plates are already burnt. You can confirm by smelling inside the oil fill plug or draining the oil. You will know just by the smell. If so you need to change the filter also and replace the damaged clutch parts. If you want more spring pressure you can order the diaphram clutch spring from the XVS13 model. Both models share the same clutch basket and it will fit correctly. I believe the increase in pressure is in the 8-10% range. Although this should not be necessary with the recommended oil. You will notice an increase in the pressure required to operate the clutch lever.
Let me know how it turns out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
clutch slip

hi guys, the oil is motorcycle specific for wet clutches, but its basically relatively cheap for a fully synthetic, its called white label range and comes from heine gericke or busters cant remember which two of the best dealers in germany and uk. i dont think its oil related .maybe im asking too mutch of a v twin with massive power pulses. i used to run my 500bhp busa on the road and strip with mobil 1 car oil with friction modifiers which is a big no no for wet plate clutches.but the busa,s clutch didn,t slip with heavier springs in. iwas hoping someone did a 6 spring conversion kit for the 950, because i dont like single spring clutches. thats really good advice for the 1300 spring thanks, as i said its minor and 10% extra will probably do it. its a nice cheap easy fix i,ll let you know how it turns out. you guys are well clued out on this site. thanks john. by the way i wouldnt run anything but fully synth after the 1000mile break in. if your interested i,ll tell you my break in procedeure. it works because i can see 110- 115 on the speedo.
 

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After employment at Yamaha for 30 years and working with the Japanese engine design teams I can tell you that in my opinion there is no benefit to use any kind of synthetic oil in a Yamaha cruiser model. I have discussed this with different engineers over the many years and their message is always the same. There is no cost benefit, little if any performance benefit and can shorten clutch life significantly. On the positive side you could see a 2-3% increase in peak horsepower and torque performing back to back dyno runs if you're lucky. In my opinion that's not a good tradeoff if my clutch begins to slip with a standard clutch spring after only 2000 miles. Based on the XVS13 that spring was intentionally lightened up to prvide a lighter clutch lever feel but not so much that a sacrafice in holding power was given up. Under the machines intended use that spring is sufficient to provide enough pressure for thousands of miles. On the other hand if you're moto-clutching it out of most of the corners and slipping it big time then of course you're going to burn it no matter what type of oil you use. If they felt there was a mechanical benefit they would recommend it to the owner but instead in the owners manual you will find it says specifically not to use "oils of a higher quality than specified". That's their way of telling you not to use synthetic, as well as "CD" or "energy conserving ll" or higher oils.
Just keep it simple. It's not a hi-revving sportbike that produces gobs of power and torque. It's an air-cooled V-twin cruiser intended for non agressive relaxed riding that produces about 65 HP @ 5500 rpm and 70 ft-lb of torque @ 4000 rpm. Inspect the clutch plates to make sure they're not burnt, use the standard or XVS13 spring and use the Castrol GTX 20W-50 or 10W-40 motorcycle oil you can purchase cheaply at any Pep Boys or Kraegen automotive stores. If you're not wicking the clutch like crazy it should perform well for many miles to come.
 

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Here's what the manual actually says:

SPECIFICATIONS
Specifications
CS-01E
Model XVS1100/XVS1100A
Dimensions
XVS1100
Overall length 2,405 mm (94.7 in)
Overall width 895 mm (35.2 in)
Overall height 1,095 mm (43.1 in)
Seat height 690 mm (27.2 in)
Wheelbase 1,640 mm (64.6 in)
Ground clearance 145 mm (5.7 in)
Minimum turning radius 3,200 mm (126 in)
XVS1100A
Overall length 2,465 mm (97.0 in)
Overall width 945 mm (37.2 in)
Overall height 1,095 mm (43.1 in)
Seat height 710 mm (28.0 in)
Wheelbase 1,645 mm (64.8 in)
Ground clearance 145 mm (5.7 in)
Minimum turning radius 3,300 mm (129.9 in)
Basic weight (with oil and full
fuel tank)
XVS1100 275 kg (606 lb)
XVS1100A 288 kg (635 lb)
Engine
Engine type Air-cooled 4-stroke, SOHC
Cylinder arrangement V type 2-cylinder
Displacement 1,063 cm3
Bore × stroke 95.0 × 75.0 mm (3.74 × 2.95 in)
Compression ratio 8.3:1
Starting system Electric starter
Lubrication system Wet sump
Engine oil
Type
Recommended engine oil
classification API Service SE, SF, SG or
higher
0 10 30 50 70 90 110 130 °F

_
In order to prevent clutch slippage
(since the engine oil also
lubricates the clutch), do not
mix any chemical additives with
the oil or use oils of a “CD”
grade or higher. In addition, do
not use oils labeled “ENERGY
CONSERVING II” or higher.

The "CD" refers to a Diesel Standard CD and above ie CG contain friction modifiers.

Note there is no mention of synthetic oils.

Synthetic engine oil

In the early 1960s, Chevron U.S.A integrated the first commercial utilization of hydrocracking technology at its Richmond California refinery [1]. By 1993 the company introduced lubricant Isodewaxing [2] technology making Chevron one of the worlds largest manufacturers of API (category II and III) base oils. Today, API (category III) base oils are marketed to the general public as fully synthetic motor oil.

Oils lower than SL are considered obsolete. Lighter weight oils some 10W, and almost all 5W and 0W almost always contain friction modifiers/energy conservation additives. While oils above 15W generally do not.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
i wonder some times

DO NOT use full synthetic oil of any kind. It is not kind to fiber plate wet clutches. That's probably why your clutch is slipping with so few miles. Use a regular castor base oil in the range of 10W-40 or 20W-50 just like the owners manual and engine designers suggest. There's a good chance your fiber and steel plates are already burnt. You can confirm by smelling inside the oil fill plug or draining the oil. You will know just by the smell. If so you need to change the filter also and replace the damaged clutch parts. If you want more spring pressure you can order the diaphram clutch spring from the XVS13 model. Both models share the same clutch basket and it will fit correctly. I believe the increase in pressure is in the 8-10% range. Although this should not be necessary with the recommended oil. You will notice an increase in the pressure required to operate the clutch lever.
Let me know how it turns out.
hi cheese and crackers, this is a reply to your 2 postings. ive beeen riding since 1964 and ive rebuilt engines from vincents to hayabusas including about 5 choppers scratch built springers and frames because we couldn,t get parts over here in the late 1960s. youve given a very dangerous piece of advice if you put castor oil in with a mineral oil the bike will seize the two dont mix. castor oil was the best lubricant for racing and speedway bikes in the 60s. if you want to use it now it would mean stripping the engine! oil lines every thing clean it in solvent and reasemble using castor oil on reasembly
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i wonder some times

continuation of my last post, i ran out of room.the last part was ive no idea what castor oil will do to a wet clutch. you said that synthetic would give a 2-3%increase in hp, thats not the name of the game ask yourself why!if just oil alone would do that it must be more slippery giving your engine more protection and a longer life a few clutch plates seem a small price to pay for an engine that lasts longer. i dont know what motoclutching in the turns or wicking the clutch means. in a turn when i hit the apex i open the throttle i dont touch the clutch in a turn i dont do burn outs or wheelies i just wind it hard through the gears occasionaly as for riding a cruiser sedately its a motobike and it leans through turns i do like to play sometimes and running hard through a turn and scrapping the boards happens i have even ground off a part of the back portion of the floorboard bracket to stop it digging in if a cruiser is only meant to be ridden at 50mph all day why do they have all the performance parts and monster motors for the hd well thats my twopenneth worth john
 

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Stoner, you are absolutely right about Castor oil and I apologetically stand corrected. Conventional or Mineral base oil is what I intended to suggest. I should have checked my own typing. From my experience if you change your oil on a regular 3000-4000 mile basis you can expect excellent engine life with the many mineral base oils available. Full synthetics are more slippery, hence the slight increase in HP used in most engines but that doesn't necessarily mean increased engine life if you are changing it at the same intervals. I do believe you can run it at longer intervals before it breaks down compared to mineral base but my understanding of its shortcomings are decreased fiber plate life. Many of the road race and motocross teams do in fact use full synthetics in their wet clutches but through their own experience replace the fiber plates after every race. From your description it doesn't sound like you are abusing your clutch. That's why I'm suprised you are experiencing slippage with so few miles and that's why I can only suspect that the synthetic is causing it. I'm sure with mineral base the standard spring should be able to hold it for thousands of miles and you verified that your cable has a small amount of freeplay. I'm currently riding an XVS13 with about 9000 on it now and the clutch is fine. The 950 engine is based on the 1300 cases with smaller air cooled cylinder heads and a lighter clutch spring. If I remember correctly the transmission ratios and final drive are all the same. I also enjoy relatively aggressive mountain road riding and do it frequently much the same way you have described and see no reason why your clutch should be slipping. Again my apologies for the inaccurate oil type and thank you for the correction. By the way, do you have the standard model or the Tourer?
 

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Stoner what brand of 10W50 are you using? I stay with a 15W or higher. This usually keeps me out of the "Friction Modifier" zone. I use synthetics within the guidelines of the owners manual.

C&C I don't know which synthetics you are talking about but the synthetics you can buy off the shelf are almost all "Hydrocracked" Dino oils, just Catagory 3 Base Oils. Under extreme temps and pressures with added catalysts you accomplish a process called Iso-dewaxing. What you're left with is classified as full synthetic oils. Which because of the temps and pressures used in the process are pretty much impervious to the loads we put on them. Yields an oil whos sheer point (the pressure the molecule breaks under) and temp stability far exceed standard oils.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
i agree

hi cheese and crackers, i think ? i know the downs and pluses of synthetic. as you say a good mineral oil will work great if you change oil and the filter regularly at sensible mileage. i didn,t know it affected the fibre clutch plates quite so badly, may be a change to kevlar plates when the factory clutch wears out might cure it. i took it out last night on one of our infrequent sunny days. i found a deserted piece of A road and dropped the hammer, drag start and redline in every gear to an indicated 115 in top gear on a flat road, then throttled off. i didn,t detect any clutch slip so this thread is a storm in a teacup. my fault, bad day and seat of the pants judgement dont allways work. youve laid out the facts from a strong standpoint and people can make up there own mind. for me its fully synth all the way. emotive subject we stirred up. ive heard good things about amsoil and motul wet clutch synthetics.wellyouve gone to the top in my estimation, but i had to say some thing because i didnt want someone buy castrol R40 and put it into there bikes because of a typo. ride safe john. ps this time lag is a bitch.
 
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