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Well I just do not trust the dealer and I have been proven correct to not trust them.

The dealer uses Yamaha 5GH-13440-50-00 oil filters, that is what they put on the bike at the 600 mile service even though the paper work said they put on a 5GH-13440-60-00 oil filter. The 50 is the last revision and is not a bad oil filter while the 60 is the most current revision. The Dealer is still stocked with the older 50 revision number oil filters.

I bought several Yamaha 5GH-13440-60-00 oil filters on line and that is what I used when I changed the oil at the 1,000 mile mark and used Redline synthetic oil.

At the 4,000 mile service I told the dealer I wanted to change the oil filter and use Yamalube 15w-50 synthetic oil and I would pay for the oil filter and the price difference for the oil. When they were done they said that the 4,000 mile service calls for an oil filter change and that the service contract allowed for the 15w-50 Yamalube oil so they said I did not have to pay anything.

The 4,000 mile service does not call for an oil filter change as Yamaha says every other oil change to change the oil filter, I would rather change the oil filter at each oil change, that is just me.

Well I just have not been satisfied with this dealers performance front of the house and rear of the house. So I checked the oil filter and it was the same 60 revision number oil filter I put on the engine at the 1,000 mile oil change I did, how do I know, because I did not yet have the filter wrench to fit the Yamaha oil filter so I had to use a plier type oil filter wrench and it leaves marks on the oil filter. Those marks were on the oil filter from the plier type oil filter wrench I used. This dealer is still using up their old stock of number 50 revision oil filters even through they put the new part number on the paperwork.

After discovering this I have my doubts that they put Yamalube 15w-40 synthetic oil in the engine as well. I took an oil sample to send off to Blackstone labs, that will tell me what weight oil they used but I suspect they used Yamalube 10w-40 conventional oil as that is what they use for their contract services.

I know the wear metals are going to be high because the engine, primary and transmission are still wearing in and the bike now has 5,341 miles on it.

So this oil sample will only have 1,342 miles on it and it will be interesting to see what the lab report says about it.

I now know I have a new oil filter and Redline synthetic oil in the engine. If you want something done right you almost always end up having to do it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
how much does that lab cost?
if you did the oil change at the 1,000 mile mark, why did you have them do it at the 4,000 mile mark?
I am staying with the manuals intervals, but I changed at the 1,000 mile mark to dump the 10w-40 Yamalube conventional oil and changed the oil filter to help flush out more of the wear metals.

I changed it this time because the engine just did not feel right it just felt like to much vibration, so I changed the oil again as I suspect they used 10w-40 again instead of the the 15w-50 I wanted. I said I would pay the difference and I also told them to change the oil filter, they did not change the oil filter because it still had the same marks on it from when I changed it at the 1,000 mile mark.

I did a quick test ride after changing the oil and filter and filled up with gas and the engine was much smoother again. I use Redline synthetic oils in my vehicles and I put Redline in it at the 1,000 mile mark and the engine was smooth. I put Redline in again and again the engine is nice and smooth again.

I have a contract with them to do the services and they told me the filter was included but they did not change it. They also said the 15w-50 was in the contract price as well, it is not, you have to pay extra for the full synthetic.

This dealer has been a royal pain in my rear end from the start.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
how much does that lab cost?
if you did the oil change at the 1,000 mile mark, why did you have them do it at the 4,000 mile mark?
It is around 38 dollars but I get the TBN report included as well so that is 10 dollars extra. So if you just want a report without the TBN then it is 28 dollars.
 

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Had a dealer screw me last Saturday. Bought an HD dyna wide glide. Asked them about the cam tensioners and the failure that I found was common. They assured me they were fine and not to worry. Took the cam cover off yesterday and half of the front tensioner was broken off. Gonna need new hydraulic tensioners kit, cams, lifters, and pushrods. Crossing my fingers they are going to make it right and not charge me an arm and leg.
 

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Well I just do not trust the dealer and I have been proven correct to not trust them.

The dealer uses Yamaha 5GH-13440-50-00 oil filters, that is what they put on the bike at the 600 mile service even though the paper work said they put on a 5GH-13440-60-00 oil filter. The 50 is the last revision and is not a bad oil filter while the 60 is the most current revision. The Dealer is still stocked with the older 50 revision number oil filters.

I bought several Yamaha 5GH-13440-60-00 oil filters on line and that is what I used when I changed the oil at the 1,000 mile mark and used Redline synthetic oil.

At the 4,000 mile service I told the dealer I wanted to change the oil filter and use Yamalube 15w-50 synthetic oil and I would pay for the oil filter and the price difference for the oil. When they were done they said that the 4,000 mile service calls for an oil filter change and that the service contract allowed for the 15w-50 Yamalube oil so they said I did not have to pay anything.

The 4,000 mile service does not call for an oil filter change as Yamaha says every other oil change to change the oil filter, I would rather change the oil filter at each oil change, that is just me.

Well I just have not been satisfied with this dealers performance front of the house and rear of the house. So I checked the oil filter and it was the same 60 revision number oil filter I put on the engine at the 1,000 mile oil change I did, how do I know, because I did not yet have the filter wrench to fit the Yamaha oil filter so I had to use a plier type oil filter wrench and it leaves marks on the oil filter. Those marks were on the oil filter from the plier type oil filter wrench I used. This dealer is still using up their old stock of number 50 revision oil filters even through they put the new part number on the paperwork.

After discovering this I have my doubts that they put Yamalube 15w-40 synthetic oil in the engine as well. I took an oil sample to send off to Blackstone labs, that will tell me what weight oil they used but I suspect they used Yamalube 10w-40 conventional oil as that is what they use for their contract services.

I know the wear metals are going to be high because the engine, primary and transmission are still wearing in and the bike now has 5,341 miles on it.

So this oil sample will only have 1,342 miles on it and it will be interesting to see what the lab report says about it.

I now know I have a new oil filter and Redline synthetic oil in the engine. If you want something done right you almost always end up having to do it yourself.
WOW Bill, that’s unbelievable!
1. I would completely eviscerate them on EVERY available forum or review site.
2. You clearly have pictures of the filter. So when the oil analysis comes back as 10w-40, I would send a package with proof to Yamaha Corporate as well as to the State Anti-Fraud unit.
It’s possible that you may gather others with similar experiences after you post your reviews and story to be able to form a Class Action Lawsuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
WOW Bill, that’s unbelievable!
1. I would completely eviscerate them on EVERY available forum or review site.
2. You clearly have pictures of the filter. So when the oil analysis comes back as 10w-40, I would send a package with proof to Yamaha Corporate as well as to the State Anti-Fraud unit.
It’s possible that you may gather others with similar experiences after you post your reviews and story to be able to form a Class Action Lawsuit.
As you know I have washed my hands of this dealer, it has just been one bad experience after the next with them, I have never had this poor of a relationship with a dealer before.

I will be very interested in the lab report on the oil when it comes back. Dealers like this one just don't care. They are satisfied with one and done sales and customers. Not a very smart or good way to run a business. It took me a full week to get all the oil and overspray off the bike after this last service they did.
 

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this is a terrible situation

you guys need to find a mechanic you can trust without having to look over his shoulder
or you need to read the book: Zen and the art of motorcycle maintaince
and then goto Sears and Sawbucks a get a set of metric wrenches and do all the work on your bike that you can by yourself.

A motorcycle mechanic is not just some kid that use to tinker with lawn mower engines. These guys go to at least 2 years at a technical college, and many have further training on the specific bikes they work on. The mechanics at dealers and large shops are professionals, and they do deserve your respect. If that is not what you are experiencing then something is very wrong.

If you have no respect for the people working on your bike (for any reason) then how can you possibly let them touch your bike?

Its your bike, and if something gets screwed up on it, then its your ass on the asphalt at 80mph.

I know there are some people who cannot work on machines, because they have to protect their hands, like doctors, musicians, dentists... But for the average person, if you can take the wheel off a bicycle and change a flat tire, you can change your own oil and filters and spark plugs.

I know how you feel. For most of my life I had to fix my own cars, because it made no sense for me to pay a shop $60 an hour when I was only earning $30 an hour. That is no longer the case, but I am very selective on who I let work on my vehicles - and that trust has to be earned.

Life is too short to be upset or paranoid about things like this, and there are way too many people on Earth to waste your time with people that are nothing but grief.

I have seen signs in repair shops:

Labor rates:

$50 an hour
$75 an hour if you watch
$100 an hour if you helpd

some of my best memories are helping friends and family working on cars together - swapping out a transmission, replacing a clutch on Halloween, figuring out why an engine was not running well, and making it like new again. It is a genuine sense of accomplishment, and it builds your confidence to know you can do it yourself.
 

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WOW Bill, that’s unbelievable!
1. I would completely eviscerate them on EVERY available forum or review site.
2. You clearly have pictures of the filter. So when the oil analysis comes back as 10w-40, I would send a package with proof to Yamaha Corporate as well as to the State Anti-Fraud unit.
It’s possible that you may gather others with similar experiences after you post your reviews and story to be able to form a Class Action Lawsuit.
As you know I have washed my hands of this dealer, it has just been one bad experience after the next with them, I have never had this poor of a relationship with a dealer before.

I will be very interested in the lab report on the oil when it comes back. Dealers like this one just don't care. They are satisfied with one and done sales and customers. Not a very smart or good way to run a business. It took me a full week to get all the oil and overspray off the bike after this last service they did.
I know you do most all your maintenance yourself and are pretty accomplished in your skill set, yet I hope you have another dealership somewhere you can use if needed.
I’m sorry you’ve had to endure such an experience. It makes me appreciate the service I get SOOOO much more.
 

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I change the oil in my family vehicles, yard equipment and motorcycle. It is my Zen place. I feel accomplished after. I took a company vehicle into a
"Jiffy Lube" who was advertising $39.95 oil change with a free car wash. I got the charges of $49.95 with no car wash. I inquired and they told me it was because I was a fleet vehicle. I asked what was different about this van than any other non fleet vehicle. Nothing, they told me. :( Very frustrating!!!! I bought a set of tools with my wife and I's last few dollars to go work at a dealership changing oil. I enjoyed it then and I still enjoy it. Some people out there are honest, most are not. Sorry you have had this experience American.
 

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I change the oil in my family vehicles, yard equipment and motorcycle. It is my Zen place. I feel accomplished after. I took a company vehicle into a
"Jiffy Lube" who was advertising $39.95 oil change with a free car wash. I got the charges of $49.95 with no car wash. I inquired and they told me it was because I was a fleet vehicle. I asked what was different about this van than any other non fleet vehicle. Nothing, they told me. :( Very frustrating!!!! I bought a set of tools with my wife and I's last few dollars to go work at a dealership changing oil. I enjoyed it then and I still enjoy it. Some people out there are honest, most are not. Sorry you have had this experience American.
I don't want to be an ass, But in my experience most are very honest and some are not.
 

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I change the oil in my family vehicles, yard equipment and motorcycle. It is my Zen place. I feel accomplished after. I took a company vehicle into a
"Jiffy Lube" who was advertising $39.95 oil change with a free car wash. I got the charges of $49.95 with no car wash. I inquired and they told me it was because I was a fleet vehicle. I asked what was different about this van than any other non fleet vehicle. Nothing, they told me. /forums/images/smilies/frown.gif Very frustrating!!!! I bought a set of tools with my wife and I's last few dollars to go work at a dealership changing oil. I enjoyed it then and I still enjoy it. Some people out there are honest, most are not. Sorry you have had this experience American.
I don't want to be an ass, But in my experience most are very honest and some are not.
. Hey it’s ok. Maybe I need to be more optimistic, but I have been burned more than once so I probably spew negativity. I need to “consider the Lillie’s of the [email protected] do&$ field”. Name that movie.
 

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Well I just do not trust the dealer and I have been proven correct to not trust them...
That is why I learned so many trades throughout my life, I've found that no one can really be trusted be they mechanics, plumbers, electricians, people in construction... it's rare to find the good ones and I think things are getting worse and it's not only in the trade/labor sector.
 

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Well I just do not trust the dealer and I have been proven correct to not trust them...
That is why I learned so many trades throughout my life, I've found that no one can really be trusted be they mechanics, plumbers, electricians, people in construction... it's rare to find the good ones and I think things are getting worse and it's not only in the trade/labor sector.
You make a good point. I’d like to proffer a thought as an ordained Reverend on this subject if I may.
I believe you’re seeing the results of the breakdown of the moral morays of society.
Whether it’s tv, movies, music etc... any idea of integrity, respect or personal accountability are mocked and portrayed as “weak”.
Things such as “honor your parents” or “don’t commit adultery” or “don’t lie cheat or steal” are dismissed. Heroes of movies take what they want, do what they want to whomever they want as long as they GET what they want, and this is “cool”!
The bottom line: it’s an absence of moral absolutes IMHO.

I return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Rev. TJ
 

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Y.P.E. your statement about the guy making minimum wage not being able to afford to have his car serviced is correct. Henry Thoreau realized back in the 1800's that most people could walk to one place from another faster than they could ride a train. That is because they would have to work for a week or more to pay for the train ticket, and at 3 mph you can walk 36 miles a day, 250 miles a week.

In our time, the cost to drive a car is about 40¢ per mile, and it does not matter if that is the first mile on the odo, or the last mile driving the car to the wrecking yard after 200,000 miles.

At an average speed of 50mph, that is $20 / hour to drive a car. If you make $8.50 an hour and take home $7 after taxes, you have to work for 3 hours for every hour you want to drive your car.

So they travel 50 miles driving for 1 hour and working for 3 hours: 50 / 4 = 12.5 mph effective rate of travel. That is faster than walking, but it is exactly the low energy easy pace for riding a bicycle.

So yes, a person making min wage cannot afford to drive a car - they will break even if they ride a bicycle everywhere they go - and they will be much better off if they live across the street from work, or live on campus if they are a student.

There are ways to beat that 40¢/mile cost of driving:

1. drive a very efficient inexpensive vehicle, like a base model motorcycle
2. do all your repairs and maintenance work yourself using the lowest cost supplies and fluids you can use that meet the requirements
3. shop around and get a really good deal on the vehicle, from someone that is selling it below normal cost (for whatever reason).
 

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Things such as “honor your parents” or “don’t commit adultery” or “don’t lie cheat or steal” are dismissed. ...
I agree that moral standards that were based on religious beliefs, need to be replaced by something else, if people are no longer willing to accept the basis of the religious beliefs.

For some reason that is lacking in the US. Personal freedom, personal rights, individual autonomy are cherished and granted at a disproportional level in the US compared to other parts of the world, to the point that is it clearly a contradictory situation.

This was gone over extensively in another thread about gun ownership. In the USA:

1. individuals have a constitutional "right" to life and liberty

and

2. individuals are forbidden to murder and take away another persons right to life

and

3. individuals have the constitutional right to own weapons that are able to kill hundreds of people in a manner of minutes.

Other countries have resolved this, with the recognition that human beings are a community / social-group species, and that in many instances the rights of the many are more important than the rights of the individual. For example: the right to self defense is valid, and the likelihood that an individual will need to defend himself from being attacked by hundreds of people in a manner of minutes, and will need to kill them all, is totally absurd.

Getting back to your statement, if you take religious beliefs out of the equation, it is still true that humans grow and prosper far far better living and working together towards common goals, and it is easy to have laws and customs that set a standard for behavior that benefits the group or the society, over the desires and whims of the individual.

Other countries have made that transition. The US is lagging far behind.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I agree that moral standards that were based on religious beliefs, need to be replaced by something else, if people are no longer willing to accept the basis of the religious beliefs.

For some reason that is lacking in the US. Personal freedom, personal rights, individual autonomy are cherished and granted at a disproportional level in the US compared to other parts of the world, to the point that is it clearly a contradictory situation.

This was gone over extensively in another thread about gun ownership. In the USA:

1. individuals have a constitutional "right" to life and liberty

and

2. individuals are forbidden to murder and take away another persons right to life

and

3. individuals have the constitutional right to own weapons that are able to kill hundreds of people in a manner of minutes.

Other countries have resolved this, with the recognition that human beings are a community / social-group species, and that in many instances the rights of the many are more important than the rights of the individual. For example: the right to self defense is valid, and the likelihood that an individual will need to defend himself from being attacked by hundreds of people in a manner of minutes, and will need to kill them all, is totally absurd.

Getting back to your statement, if you take religious beliefs out of the equation, it is still true that humans grow and prosper far far better living and working together towards common goals, and it is easy to have laws and customs that set a standard for behavior that benefits the group or the society, over the desires and whims of the individual.

Other countries have made that transition. The US is lagging far behind.
Yet these so called more advanced countries still have shootings even though almost all of them have banned guns.

Guns are not the problem, guns have never been the problem.

Here is one for you to ponder, when did all these mass shootings really start to happen on a regular basis?

The answer is right in front of your own nose but I doubt you will see it.

The answer is the "Millennial Generation", that is the generation that has gone off the deep end.

The government wants my guns they better be prepared for the fight of their lives because they are not taking my gun away voluntarily.
 

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...
Things such as “honor your parents” or “don’t commit adultery” or “don’t lie cheat or steal” are dismissed. ...
I agree that moral standards that were based on religious beliefs, need to be replaced by something else, if people are no longer willing to accept the basis of the religious beliefs.

For some reason that is lacking in the US. Personal freedom, personal rights, individual autonomy are cherished and granted at a disproportional level in the US compared to other parts of the world, to the point that is it clearly a contradictory situation.

This was gone over extensively in another thread about gun ownership. In the USA:

1. individuals have a constitutional "right" to life and liberty

and

2. individuals are forbidden to murder and take away another persons right to life

and

3. individuals have the constitutional right to own weapons that are able to kill hundreds of people in a manner of minutes.

Other countries have resolved this, with the recognition that human beings are a community / social-group species, and that in many instances the rights of the many are more important than the rights of the individual. For example: the right to self defense is valid, and the likelihood that an individual will need to defend himself from being attacked by hundreds of people in a manner of minutes, and will need to kill them all, is totally absurd.

Getting back to your statement, if you take religious beliefs out of the equation, it is still true that humans grow and prosper far far better living and working together towards common goals, and it is easy to have laws and customs that set a standard for behavior that benefits the group or the society, over the desires and whims of the individual.

Other countries have made that transition. The US is lagging far behind.
The problem is “socialism”. It’s FAILED everywhere and every time it’s been implemented.
Our Constituiton guarantees the freedom to PURSUE happiness. It does not guarantee your right to a certain lifestyle of to things you haven’t EARNED.
Regarding the 2A since you broached the subject:
The 2A was CLEALRY & HISTORICALLY with irrefutable evidence placed in their as a right so that GOVT could never become oppressive and take away the rights of the people.
How examples do you need historically to prove what happens to the people of a country when the right to bear arms is taken away? Do you know how many 10’s of MILLIONS have been executed by their government when the people no longer had the means to resist?

Regarding your “group think” philosophy of society one only needs to look at Germany’s history to see where that goes.
Funny how that whole thing took off right after Hitler comfiscated weapons. 🤔

I might add that America is a Constitutional Republic, NOT a “democracy”. Our Founders called that a “MOBocracy”.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
On to other issues, I sent off the oil sample to Blackstone labs this morning, it should arrive to them on Tuesday next week so I hope to have the results by the end of next week or the beginning of the following week at the latest.
 
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