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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Due to the issue of where, how and how much oil to add when doing an oil change on the Yamaha 1854 cc V-Twin I thought a thread of its own was in order.

The service manual is very specific on the procedure and amounts of oil that are poured into the engine crankcase and the oil tank for the semi dry sump system.

Here is the correct procedure from the service manual:

10. Fill:
*Oil tank and crank case
(with the specified amount of the recommended engine oil)

Engine oil quantity

Quantity (disassembled)
6.66 US qt

Oil change
5.18 US qt

Oil change with oil filter removal
5.60 US qt

a. Pour only 3.2 US qt of the specified amount of recommended engine oil through the filler hole.

b. Fill the crankcase with the remaining oil quantity.

Note that the service manual is very specific about pouring only 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank with the remaining oil being poured into the engine crankcase. That amount being poured into the engine crankcase will be different depending on if you changed the oil filter or not.

Now read the owners manual:

Filling starts on page 9-11:

11. Pour 2.0 US qt of engine oil into the crankcase.

12. Install the crankcase filler bolt and o-ring.

13. Pour approximately 3.2 US qt of engine oil into the oil tank.

TIP

Fill the oil tank gradually while checking the oil level on the dip stick.

The necessary quantity of oil will increase slightly if the oil filter was also changed.

Notice the owners manual is still saying to pour 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank, but it is confusing because they are saying to pour 2.0 US qt of oil into the engine crankcase. But they go on to say under the word TIP in the owners manual "The necessary quantity of oil will increase slightly if the oil filter was also changed.

The confusion comes in as they are not clear where that extra oil is added.

The service manual is very clear that the oil tank is to only receive 3.2 US qt of oil with the remaining oil being poured into the engine crankcase.

I think the owners manual meant to say if you are changing the oil without a filter pour 2.0 US qt of oil into the engine crankcase and 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank. Where they say the necessary quantity of oil will increase slightly if the oil filter was also changed means you pour 2.4 US qt of oil into the crank case and 3.2 US qt of oil in the semi dry sump oil tank.

That would bring the owners manual into alignment with the service manual as the service manual is far more specific on the quantity of oil that goes into the engine crankcase with and without an oil filter change and at all times it is very clear to pour only 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank.

My advice is to follow the service manual. It makes zero sense to over fill the semi dry sump oil tank resulting in an incorrect dip stick reading showing over filled. If you follow the service manual procedure the dip stick reading will always be correct.

https://youtu.be/TwaNrgxwMAo
 

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Due to the issue of where, how and how much oil to add when doing an oil change on the Yamaha 1854 cc V-Twin I thought a thread of its own was in order.

The service manual is very specific on the procedure and amounts of oil that are poured into the engine crankcase and the oil tank for the semi dry sump system.

Here is the correct procedure from the service manual:

10. Fill:
*Oil tank and crank case
(with the specified amount of the recommended engine oil)

Engine oil quantity

Quantity (disassembled)
6.66 US qt

Oil change
5.18 US qt

Oil change with oil filter removal
5.60 US qt

a. Pour only 3.2 US qt of the specified amount of recommended engine oil through the filler hole.

b. Fill the crankcase with the remaining oil quantity.

Note that the service manual is very specific about pouring only 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank with the remaining oil being poured into the engine crankcase. That amount being poured into the engine crankcase will be different depending on if you changed the oil filter or not.

Now read the owners manual:

Filling starts on page 9-11:

11. Pour 2.0 US qt of engine oil into the crankcase.

12. Install the crankcase filler bolt and o-ring.

13. Pour approximately 3.2 US qt of engine oil into the oil tank.

TIP

Fill the oil tank gradually while checking the oil level on the dip stick.

The necessary quantity of oil will increase slightly if the oil filter was also changed.

Notice the owners manual is still saying to pour 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank, but it is confusing because they are saying to pour 2.0 US qt of oil into the engine crankcase. But they go on to say under the word TIP in the owners manual "The necessary quantity of oil will increase slightly if the oil filter was also changed.

The confusion comes in as they are not clear where that extra oil is added.

The service manual is very clear that the oil tank is to only receive 3.2 US qt of oil with the remaining oil being poured into the engine crankcase.

I think the owners manual meant to say if you are changing the oil without a filter pour 2.0 US qt of oil into the engine crankcase and 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank. Where they say the necessary quantity of oil will increase slightly if the oil filter was also changed means you pour 2.4 US qt of oil into the crank case and 3.2 US qt of oil in the semi dry sump oil tank.

That would bring the owners manual into alignment with the service manual as the service manual is far more specific on the quantity of oil that goes into the engine crankcase with and without an oil filter change and at all times it is very clear to pour only 3.2 US qt of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank.

My advice is to follow the service manual. It makes zero sense to over fill the semi dry sump oil tank resulting in an incorrect dip stick reading showing over filled. If you follow the service manual procedure the dip stick reading will always be correct.

https://youtu.be/TwaNrgxwMAo

Gotta tell ya, I changed my oil/filer twice now and put 3.2 qts in the tank. Neither time did the oil even touch the stick. I checked it cold, hot, screwed stick in/out and it made no difference. I added the extra oil to the tank and the oil level is good.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I have changed my oil a total of four times following the service manual procedure and have always gotten a full reading on the semi dry sump oil tank dip stick.

For those who do an oil change with a filter change and want to follow the service manual this is the amount of oil each hole gets poured into them. The semi dry sump oil tank gets 3.2 US qt's. That breaks down to 3 full quarts of oil followed by another 6.4 ounces. The engine crankcase gets 2.4 US qt's. That breaks down to 2 full quarts of oil followed by another 12.8 ounces.

I use a plastic kitchen measuring cup to measure out the ounces for both.

Service manuals are an item that a manufacture will update quickly if there is an error in them, owners manuals on the other hand are rarely updated when they contain an error in them. In the case of this Yamaha owners manual while confusing it can be read two ways, the way you are reading it and the way I am reading it, my way of reading it I still comply with the service manual, the way you are reading it you are not in compliance with the service manual so the likely hood of this owners manual being updated is likely zero because it can be read to be in compliance with the service manual.

Following your method of adding oil if someone did not change the oil filter which Yamaha says only has to be changed every other oil change, according to your method the dip stick would never show any oil on it after an oil change, remember both require 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) to be poured into the semi dry sump oil tank.

In fact you would be over filling the oil system by 12.8 ounces of oil or 3.2 ounces shy of half a quart of oil to get a full reading by your method when the oil filter is not changed because you are saying you don't get a full reading unless you add that extra 12.8 ounces of oil to the oil tank. Over filling an engine with oil can result in the crank shaft contacting the oil in the bottom of the crankcase causing the oil to foam i.e. it causes the oil to become full of air bubbles which can harm the bearings due to improper lubrication from all the air bubbles in the oil.

Just to be clear 5.6 quarts of oil comes out to 5 quarts 19.2 ounces when changing the oil filter.

I guess the point is that no matter if you change the oil filter or not the correct amount of oil in the semi dry sump oil tank to read full on the dip stick is always going to be 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil. That is because the oil filter is located on the front of the engine block and not on the semi dry sump oil tank so no matter whether you change the oil filter or not the semi dry sump oil tank never varies from 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil for it to show full on the dip stick. Have less than 3.2 quarts of oil in the oil tank and it is going to read low on the dip stick, have more than 3.2 quarts of oil in the oil tank and it is going to read over filled on the dip stick.

The oil tank is where all measurements are taken via the dip stick to maintain the correct oil level so the oil tank has to always be a constant i.e. 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil to show full on the dip stick whether you change the oil filter or not. The additional oil with an oil filter change would go into the crankcase not the oil tank.

How about others that are changing their own oil, are you adding more than 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil to the semi dry sump oil tank when you change the oil and oil filter or are you following the service manual which is adamant to pour 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil into the semi dry sump oil tank and to pour the remaining 2.4 quarts (2 quarts 12.8 ounces) of oil into the engine crankcase?

The reason for this discussion is because oil is the life blood of your engine, primary and transmission and being a shared sump system and getting it wrong on the proper amounts of oil to add to the oil tank and the engine crankcase could result in engine, primary or transmission failure.
 

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I followed the owners manual. (2 qts crankcase, 3.6 tank). The only thing I can think of is that when I start putting oil in the tank, .4 qt drain into the crankcase resulting in a low reading until I add the additional oil. I'm not sure if that is the case but I would rather run the crankcase .4 qt low for a little bit than .4 overfilled.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Do it any way you want but I am following the service manual that every Yamaha shop is also going to follow.

The oil tank has to be a constant in order to get a correct reading and both the service manual and the owners manual say 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil is to be poured into the oil tank and the remaining oil is to be poured into the engine crankcase.

Stop and think for a moment your method, if you don't change the oil filter according to the method you are using 3.2 quarts would never be enough oil to fill the oil tank so you would add that extra 12.8 ounces of oil to bring the oil level up to full using your method, but due to not changing the oil filter you have just over filled the oil system by 12.8 ounces or just under half a court of oil.

The oil tank is completely independent of the oil filter and no matter if you change the oil filter or not the oil tank is designed to hold 3.2 quarts (3 quarts 6.4 ounces) of oil to read full on the dip stick.
 

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If I haven't said this in another thread, this method is insane. For the manufacturer to suggest you may need to add "a little" more oil to get the proper amount? Regardless of what some posters here have said, common sense to me is that the variance of amount in the system is dependent on two items: first being whether or not you have put a filter on and, second, if you are burning any oil.

If you are going to burn or drip oil, it will be in the engine compartment, not the oil tank. And don't engines in this type of setup try to maintain a certain level in their engine compartment? If it were to burn oil, would then the (say, 8 oz.) of oil now be replaced by nothing or more likely 8 oz. from the oil tank? In other words, would the engine just run on oil and air space? I would think more likely the engine would take some from the oil tank and that's were the void would be.

Don't engines have some type of self monitoring level? And how can it be important for the oil tank to need a certain exact level of oil to be operational? It's not a sealed system. So what if there is an extra half quart in the tank or even low a half quart?

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If I haven't said this in another thread, this method is insane. For the manufacturer to suggest you may need to add "a little" more oil to get the proper amount? Regardless of what some posters here have said, common sense to me is that the variance of amount in the system is dependent on two items: first being whether or not you have put a filter on and, second, if you are burning any oil.

If you are going to burn or drip oil, it will be in the engine compartment, not the oil tank. And don't engines in this type of setup try to maintain a certain level in their engine compartment? If it were to burn oil, would then the (say, 8 oz.) of oil now be replaced by nothing or more likely 8 oz. from the oil tank? In other words, would the engine just run on oil and air space? I would think more likely the engine would take some from the oil tank and that's were the void would be.

Don't engines have some type of self monitoring level? And how can it be important for the oil tank to need a certain exact level of oil to be operational? It's not a sealed system. So what if there is an extra half quart in the tank or even low a half quart?

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That is the only thing that makes sense to me. If it was separate there would be a dipstick in the crankcase too. I would like to know how the crankcase automatically stays at the right level.
 

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I changed just the oil at 200 miles because it was already two years old, according to the frame date. I measured what came out by refilling some empties: just a bit over 5 qts. I put 5 qts in it; the mechanic/shop owner said, "If you're in the stick, call it good." I was and I did: mid-stick. At 600 miles, I changed only the filter, engine cold. I did not measure what I lost, but I was below the stick, cold, and added until the level touched the bottom, about a cup. Note that I pre-filled the filter with oil and let is soak as I lifted the bike and laid out tools. I poured off whatever came out at "level". Then I went for a brief ride, 6 miles, returned, and the level was above to top "x". I syphoned 4oz out; level at mid stick; called it good.

How level is the bike? My floor is level, but the "Stinger" lift clearly raises the front of the bike at mid-frame. When I tap the release until the latch hits the stop, the front settles enough that swing the bars requires effort, but, as the manual reads, the tank fills faster as the level rises... It would be nice to have a stick and a procedure for the bike on level ground, on it's side stand.... Balancing my Road Star was fun enough, but the stick location and the weight of this bike means I probably won't be checking the oil level when out on a trip unless some event causes concern....like seeing the "idiot light". I have allowed the bike to sit for a bit before starting in each of the two jobs. The oil light only "blinked" for the filter change.
 

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That is the only thing that makes sense to me. If it was separate there would be a dipstick in the crankcase too. I would like to know how the crankcase automatically stays at the right level.
Good question! In a car, the tank is at the bottom of the system... When the tank is above the crank, is it just gravity? Is the crank chock full and oil returning to the tank creates space for the oil to flow from the bottom of the tank? Where is the oil pump? You have caused me to reflect that it is probably not in the tank.... Take it easy on me - I'm a teacher, not a mechanic...:rolleyes:
 
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