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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2004 V-Star 650 Classic. Sat for 2 years with gas in it. Had stabil, but that was too long. Took the float bowls off and sprayed it with cleaner and after some work it finally started but had to hold the throttle and it was rough. Then noticed the float needle must have been stuck on one carb as gas started pouring out of the overflow tube. So, took it apart. Cleaned it, made it worse. Will not start at all, though once or twice it seemed to run for a few seconds on 1 cylinder. If I squirt carb cleaner into the air intake, it starts for a second. What I did that made it worse:

1. Got an "all balls carb kit" and replaced the idle jets. Both old and New had "020" written on them. I assume they are all identical. They appeared to be.
2. Cleaned the main jet in an ultrasonic cleaner and kept the jet with the correct carb since they are different sizes. Did not replace them. They seemed clean.
3. Replaced the float needles and they seem to work as intended when moving the floats. Both carb bowls keep fuel in them as expected.
4. Replaced the float needle holder and screen (this one is silver metal, the original is brass)
5. Checked to fuel pump and it runs for 2 seconds to prime things as expected when I turn the key and have the shutoff switch to "run". Shoots gas into a glass out the other side of the fuel filter. So fuel filter seems fine too.
6. Checked the brand new plugs I added and they were awfully black with carbon for just the initial sputtery run and the attempts after cleaning the carbs. I cleaned them and put them back. That indicates rich mixture, so that confuses me.
7. Squirt carb cleaner into the man jets and it comes flying out the other side of the carb
9. Can't really determine if squirting into anything else makes it come out elsewhere. My very fine (hair thin) carb wire set goes into the idle jets and one of the 2 holes on the outside rim of the intake. It goes in both carbs, but further in one than the other. I can feel the one where it goes in further grabs the ridges of the wire because it hits a narrower spot or perhaps curves inside the carb.
10. Removed the hex screw that covers a hole at the edge of the float bowl and spraying in there has spray come out the main jet and the inner of the 2 holes on the intake opening. The ones that look like you can screw a jet out of them with a jewelers screwdriver. Should I try to extract them and inspect them?
11. I have not yet opened the vacuum controlled needle assembly. The needles seem clean and I can easily slide the plastic restrictor cylinders in and they spring back out.
12. I did NOT take out or inspect the air mixture needles. Should I?

Something seems to still be clogged since spraying volatiles into the air intake has it fire right up for one or two seconds. I'm not sure what else to try or what to do when I put the carbs back on again to make sure I do whatever needs to be done. Do I need to make sure I get air out of the gas line? Prime anything? In any case, gas is filling the bowls and carb cleaner spray runs the bike, so it has to be something past the bowls, no? I just ran the fuel pump a few times to clean out the in case there was some bad fuel in there but haven't tried to start it again.
 

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I wonder if it might be the mixture screw settings. I agree if the bowls fill up it is past tat as long as they don't over fill. Sounds like something is clogged yet. More knowledgeable help will be on the way i am sure. Some of these guys can fix these things while standing on their head on a hurricane.
 

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I do not see you listing the replacement of the O rings on the float needles holders, unless you forgot to mention it in your post. If the O ring on either needle holder is bad, gas is going to continue to flow into the bowl and pour out of the overflow tube even if the needle is in the cutoff position. After removing the floats, if you were able to remove the needle holders with your fingers, chances are those O rings need to be replaced. Usually the needle holder does not come out that easy when the O ring is in good shape.

If I was in your situation before starting up the bike again, I would pull the spark plugs and check to make sure they are not soaked in gas. Also while you have them out check to make sure you are getting a good spark. When starting the bike I'd try half of a choke but do not twist the throttle while you are cranking the engine.
 

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Sounds like you covered most things. I would screw the PSM screws in till they seat lightly. Count turns in, should be 2.5 turns. Take the PSM screws out and clean passage way extremely good. Are PSM screws clean and smoith? Put PMS back in and seat lightly, turn 2.5 turns out is stock intake and exhaust. I personally prefer 2.75 turns out as our bikes are a tad lean from factory. Report back after that. One more thing, how's fuel filter?
 

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you did not mention the "Choke" enrichment passage, which is way over on the side of the carb away from all the other jets and passages.

if its clogged, the bike will not start - it needs to be choked
 

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To build a bit more on KCW's comment - here's a pic of my carburetor when I took it apart for cleaning when I was having cold start issues. In essence, when you pull the choke cable the area marked in the picture opens the enrichment passage. In my case the choke was inoperable, the rod closing the enrichment area was stuck to the walls of the carburetor.

90973
 

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Discussion Starter #8
H
I do not see you listing the replacement of the O rings on the float needles holders, unless you forgot to mention it in your post.
Yes, the new float needle holders came with o-rings in their groove. The old ones looked fine, I was a little concerned with what looked like stainless steel instead of brass, but then the needle itself is SS, so I opted for putting all new parts where I could and seals.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Take the PSM screws out and clean passage way extremely good. Are PSM screws clean and smoith? Put PMS back in and seat lightly, turn 2.5 turns out is stock intake and exhaust. I personally prefer 2.75 turns out as our bikes are a tad lean from factory. Report back after that. One more thing, how's fuel filter?
The fuel filter IS the one that was on there, but it looks pretty good and flows fuel freely. I did get another one, so this round I'll replace it. Should I replace the PSM screws with the long ones that came in the balls in kit that are long and have knobs at the end? UPDATE: I just did it. Good thing I knew there was a washer and rubber seal as the second one took a bit to fish those out. I put the new needles in. I can just adjust them with my thumbs now. One was dirty. They are both clean now. Next will be the diaphragms. I won't be able to put it back on the bike to test until Tuesday or later. Those stupid brass screws that cover the opening that you clean that is connected to the main jet through the carb housing broke off when I was unscrewing it. They are hollow, so very fragile. Luckily I could stick a broken toothpick in there and screw the remains out very easily. Strange.

What is the brass screw in the intake side? There are 2 holes there offset above the Venturi. Do I leave that alone and just try to make sure it is clear?
90981
 

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The fuel filter IS the one that was on there, but it looks pretty good and flows fuel freely. I did get another one, so this round I'll replace it. Should I replace the PSM screws with the long ones that came in the balls in kit that are long and have knobs at the end?
Not sure what came in your kit. Should look like picture below.

90980
 

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Discussion Starter #12
In my case the choke was inoperable, the rod closing the enrichment area was stuck to the walls of the carburetor.
What do I look for there? I did notice when it was on the bike, it was hard to pull on the cable. But with the carbs in my hands if I slide the mechanism with my fingers, it moves freely. I'll check the cable too, but wondering what you are pointing to. Is it a hole or an opening that shows a needle sliding in and out? I guess I'll find out since tomorrow I'll take the covers off and remove the diaphragms.
 

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What do I look for there? I did notice when it was on the bike, it was hard to pull on the cable. But with the carbs in my hands if I slide the mechanism with my fingers, it moves freely. I'll check the cable too, but wondering what you are pointing to. Is it a hole or an opening that shows a needle sliding in and out? I guess I'll find out since tomorrow I'll take the covers off and remove the diaphragms.
The cable could have a shape bend in it causing the difficulty moving the choke when totally assembled. The other issue could be that the cable is corroded inside. With the cable loose from carbs does it freely move?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Not sure what came in your kit. Should look like picture below.
My kit looks like this. The PSM is top, third and fourth from right. Much longer and thumbscrews on them for easy access when they are on the bike. There were a lot of spare parts. I didn't use the small, short jets at the bottom left (and bottom 4th from left). They are much smaller outside diameter than my main jets. Maybe they would accomplish the same thing, but the hole sizes looked identical between them, and what I can see shows they should be different sizes on the 650. So I cleaned and used the old ones.

90982
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Way out of my league! Love reading about how smart people fix things.
And how about the mechanical and scientific genius of the inventors? This thing has 3 or 4 separate ranges that automatically pick up the give the proper mix for air/fuel with a needle, idle with a pilot jet, mid throttle with a needle and I think at 75% the main jet kicks in. Uses the different jets, precision sized holes, vacuum pressure, the venturi effect, sensors, needle valves... It takes an hour or two just to learn how it works and I still don't know about 2 of the holes ;) I do, however have a good grasp of my power washer carburetor ;)
 

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Here's a good link for Fixing carb issues on a 650:

On that page are several good recommendations on jetting :

90983


You are correct on the PSMs screws.

90984
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My local dealer is closed Sunday and Monday so I call them today for the small brass screw in the carburetor that opens into the tube that goes under the main jet, 1HX-14565-00-00 , and they want $14 plus tax and it is not in stock. If I order again from Partzilla, they want to charge $8 and another $8 to mail it! It really infuriates me. Anyone have any ideas? I'll keep searching online for whoever has the best price, but can't find anything less than about $12 including shipping or with "free" shipping.
 

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2004 V-Star 650 Classic. Sat for 2 years with gas in it. Had stabil, but that was too long. Took the float bowls off and sprayed it with cleaner and after some work it finally started but had to hold the throttle and it was rough. Then noticed the float needle must have been stuck on one carb as gas started pouring out of the overflow tube. So, took it apart. Cleaned it, made it worse. Will not start at all, though once or twice it seemed to run for a few seconds on 1 cylinder. If I squirt carb cleaner into the air intake, it starts for a second. What I did that made it worse:

1. Got an "all balls carb kit" and replaced the idle jets. Both old and New had "020" written on them. I assume they are all identical. They appeared to be.
2. Cleaned the main jet in an ultrasonic cleaner and kept the jet with the correct carb since they are different sizes. Did not replace them. They seemed clean.
3. Replaced the float needles and they seem to work as intended when moving the floats. Both carb bowls keep fuel in them as expected.
4. Replaced the float needle holder and screen (this one is silver metal, the original is brass)
5. Checked to fuel pump and it runs for 2 seconds to prime things as expected when I turn the key and have the shutoff switch to "run". Shoots gas into a glass out the other side of the fuel filter. So fuel filter seems fine too.
6. Checked the brand new plugs I added and they were awfully black with carbon for just the initial sputtery run and the attempts after cleaning the carbs. I cleaned them and put them back. That indicates rich mixture, so that confuses me.
7. Squirt carb cleaner into the man jets and it comes flying out the other side of the carb
9. Can't really determine if squirting into anything else makes it come out elsewhere. My very fine (hair thin) carb wire set goes into the idle jets and one of the 2 holes on the outside rim of the intake. It goes in both carbs, but further in one than the other. I can feel the one where it goes in further grabs the ridges of the wire because it hits a narrower spot or perhaps curves inside the carb.
10. Removed the hex screw that covers a hole at the edge of the float bowl and spraying in there has spray come out the main jet and the inner of the 2 holes on the intake opening. The ones that look like you can screw a jet out of them with a jewelers screwdriver. Should I try to extract them and inspect them?
11. I have not yet opened the vacuum controlled needle assembly. The needles seem clean and I can easily slide the plastic restrictor cylinders in and they spring back out.
12. I did NOT take out or inspect the air mixture needles. Should I?

Something seems to still be clogged since spraying volatiles into the air intake has it fire right up for one or two seconds. I'm not sure what else to try or what to do when I put the carbs back on again to make sure I do whatever needs to be done. Do I need to make sure I get air out of the gas line? Prime anything? In any case, gas is filling the bowls and carb cleaner spray runs the bike, so it has to be something past the bowls, no? I just ran the fuel pump a few times to clean out the in case there was some bad fuel in there but haven't tried to start it again.
Ok not all jets are the same even though they say the same size some are drilled or milled the same way , I found that out the hard way.
And when you do a carb job no matter how many carbs it or they get completely taken apart I was taught if you do something do it right the first time and take your time doing it so it's done correctly , when I cleaned my carbs for rejetting for the hypercharger I used 2 big cans of carb cleaner. I made sure there was no debris left that could work its way into the Jets. You might want to tear them down clean agian without the mix screws in at the same amount of turns and fine tune them.
 

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On anything that has sat that long with today's fuel, regardless of whatever fancy "stabilizer" has been added, every single removable component related to fuel metering needs to be removed & cleaned, and its passageway cleaned.

You already found out that differing brands of jets are NOT drilled the same size, even though they may have the same number. I have a set of super small drill bits I use to gauge jet sizes, and also to drill jets out in non-adjustable carburetors found in most homeowner OPE (outdoor power equipment) these days, to stop the incessant "hunting".

Right now I'm down to just my '74 Yamaha RD350 2-stroke, and a '84 XL350R that I haven't started in 7 years. Whenever I ride, when I'm at a certain point on the road coming home, I'll shut the fuel off. I know exactly where to do this, so that the bike just starts sputtering within sight of the driveway - then I'll throw it on full choke, and either get me to the garage, or let it high-idle until it stalls out. On the RD, the only way to drain the bowls is to pretty much go through the same procedure as you would to remove them, so it's impractical. With no stabilizer, I've only had to clean the carbs once in 10 years, just by draining the carbs after EVERY ride. Good habit to get into. She fires right up every spring after sitting for 7-8 months in just 3 kicks.
 
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