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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all you gear heads out there.
I was wondering, since (from my understanding) the Raider engine and SVTC are almost identical; can the tuning modules used on the Raider also work on the SVTC?
Just wondering.
 

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Hey all you gear heads out there.
I was wondering, since (from my understanding) the Raider engine and SVTC are almost identical; can the tuning modules used on the Raider also work on the SVTC?
Just wondering.
"Ok...sipping my morning brew, and waiting for someone to answer that question. One thing though...this would for sure, ax the 5 year warranty. It would be a long wait, before you could diddle around....my take anyway..."
 

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Hey all you gear heads out there.
I was wondering, since (from my understanding) the Raider engine and SVTC are almost identical; can the tuning modules used on the Raider also work on the SVTC?
Just wondering.
Most likely not. The V Star 1300 and Stryker share the same engine and are tuned differently.
 

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Doubtful a tuner for the older Raider engine/ECU would work properly due to differences in the programming each year to meet federal emissions requirements.

YamahaParExcellence is correct that once Yamaha found you had altered the ECU engine management software they would void the engine/drivetrain warranty. Not a gamble worth taking as this bike already makes awesome power from the factory.

Maybe down the road when these bikes are out of warranty a tuner might be an option, but right now it is not something I want to deal with.

Both Polaris/Victory and Harley Davidson would void your powertrain warranty if you used an aftermarket tuner. Both Polaris/Victory and Harley Davidson did have downloads for performance improvements but you had to have a dealer do it and they were nothing to brag about. Harley Davidson also sells their own turner but after they got into legal trouble with them I am not sure they still keep your warranty intact even if you buy the Harley Davidson branded tuner, I think after they had to pay fines they stopped warranty even if you used the Harley Davidson brand tuner. Maybe their newest tuners have been changed and Harley Davidson will still warranty the powertrain but it is something you would have to look into.

I just did a quick search and it seems that with Harley Davidson they have their Screaming Eagle brand parts but if you use aftermarket the warranty is void. Also someone posted that they had contacted Yamaha and got pretty much the same response from Yamaha, aftermarket slip ons and tuners would void your warranty. This was from a Harley forum. The EPA has really come down hard on manufactures about altering the emissions systems so that means the ECU, the exhaust, even the intake system.

These bikes are to complicated and to expensive today to take the chance with aftermarket parts that may provided improved performance but will void your manufacture warranty.
 

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Doubtful a tuner for the older Raider engine/ECU would work properly due to differences in the programming each year to meet federal emissions requirements.

YamahaParExcellence is correct that once Yamaha found you had altered the ECU engine management software they would void the engine/drivetrain warranty. Not a gamble worth taking as this bike already makes awesome power from the factory.

Maybe down the road when these bikes are out of warranty a tuner might be an option, but right now it is not something I want to deal with.

Both Polaris/Victory and Harley Davidson would void your powertrain warranty if you used an aftermarket tuner. Both Polaris/Victory and Harley Davidson did have downloads for performance improvements but you had to have a dealer do it and they were nothing to brag about. Harley Davidson also sells their own turner but after they got into legal trouble with them I am not sure they still keep your warranty intact even if you buy the Harley Davidson branded tuner, I think after they had to pay fines they stopped warranty even if you used the Harley Davidson brand tuner. Maybe their newest tuners have been changed and Harley Davidson will still warranty the powertrain but it is something you would have to look into.

I just did a quick search and it seems that with Harley Davidson they have their Screaming Eagle brand parts but if you use aftermarket the warranty is void. Also someone posted that they had contacted Yamaha and got pretty much the same response from Yamaha, aftermarket slip ons and tuners would void your warranty. This was from a Harley forum. The EPA has really come down hard on manufactures about altering the emissions systems so that means the ECU, the exhaust, even the intake system.

These bikes are to complicated and to expensive today to take the chance with aftermarket parts that may provided improved performance but will void your manufacture warranty.
I have my Raider tuned and told the dealership it was tuned. They honor my warranty with no issue. The thing is they have to prove the tune caused whatever issue is coming up. Same with any afterrmarket parts. It is the burden of the dealership to prove the aftermarket part caused a failure. NOW what some dealers do is tell you that your warranty is voided when it isnt because they do not want to mess with it. I have run into that before.
 

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I have my Raider tuned and told the dealership it was tuned. They honor my warranty with no issue. The thing is they have to prove the tune caused whatever issue is coming up. Same with any afterrmarket parts. It is the burden of the dealership to prove the aftermarket part caused a failure. NOW what some dealers do is tell you that your warranty is voided when it isnt because they do not want to mess with it. I have run into that before.
Yeah...but then, you have the 'hassle' factor...or going to legal court...time...LAWYER EXPENSE...and all for what? A few horsepower, or twirl to the torque curve....weighted against the aforementioned 'hassle factor'. I dunno... If I needed more power than what my ride had, then I'd assume, that I did not choose wisely, or did not understand my own wants and ride requirements. I'd sell or trade in, and buy another bike...with a bigger, hotter performance engine, and stock...... Just say'in....
 

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Part of the Settlement with the EPA and Harley was all about Harley selling their own tuners to defeat the EPA tunes that people hated. So on newer Harley's Dealers are supposed to reject any warranty claim if the bikes's intake, fuel, and or exhaust has been modified. The Dealers.............. Many Harley dealers know that aftermarket fuel, exhaust and intake are big things people like to modify, so they look the other way and get warranty approved.

For others

The only time they would look at the ECU is if there was an Engine Issue.

Polaris/Indian use off the Shelf Bosch ECU units and the software is not proprietary, in fact Dynojet has a ECU flash module (PVCX) that can copy and save your current ECU file and let you upload new flash files just like Ivan does. The product also has an advanced software package where users and tuners like Ivan can go in and adjust everything. And again many of the dealers are big proponents of upgrades like this, so unless you blow an engine and Polaris actually has to investigate, the dealers will honor your warranty.


As for the EPA, last January they were going to ban ALL Aftermarket Intake, Exhaust or performance items on ALL Vehicles regardless or not if they were really going to be used for racing. Basically if the vehicle came out of the factory as a street vehicle, it couldn't be modified. This would put hundreds of companies out of business. These companies called their congressmen, and the EPA was told to shove it, and they dropped that rule change.

You have noticed however that all the aftermarket products now really highlight for Offroad and racing only.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks to all who replied.
I forgot about the “Warrantee” issue. Too hit & miss to risk it.
I was just curious.
Thanks!
 

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Yeah...but then, you have the 'hassle' factor...or going to legal court...time...LAWYER EXPENSE...and all for what? A few horsepower, or twirl to the torque curve....weighted against the aforementioned 'hassle factor'. I dunno... If I needed more power than what my ride had, then I'd assume, that I did not choose wisely, or did not understand my own wants and ride requirements. I'd sell or trade in, and buy another bike...with a bigger, hotter performance engine, and stock...... Just say'in....
It is not JUST for more power. Manufactures run these engines VERY lean to pass EPA. This is hard on the engine. If you ride like a sane person with the mods there is no reason the engine should not last for hundreds of thousands of miles if taken care of. In my business I am seeing engine failure, burned valves, melted pistons etc etc much sooner. Case in point was the GW that was talked about in another thread. I am willing to bet if that engine were properly tuned that would not have happened, but it was tuned from the factory right on the cusp of too lean. This can be especially problematic with our air cooled engines. I saw about a 20 degree drop in my average oil temp, as taken with a heat gun, on the Raider after the Ivan Tune. I see better fuel mileage on almost every vehicle we put a tune on with ADDING fuel. This is on the vehicles that people are not racing everywhere. A tune is not always about that 2 or 3 hp or that 3 orr 5 torque. It is also about the drivability of the machine. Do I recommend a tune for fuel mileage ... no... it is too expensive. It would take forever to regain the cost of the tune, but the better mileage is there.
 

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Part of the Settlement with the EPA and Harley was all about Harley selling their own tuners to defeat the EPA tunes that people hated. So on newer Harley's Dealers are supposed to reject any warranty claim if the bikes's intake, fuel, and or exhaust has been modified. The Dealers.............. Many Harley dealers know that aftermarket fuel, exhaust and intake are big things people like to modify, so they look the other way and get warranty approved.

For others

The only time they would look at the ECU is if there was an Engine Issue.

Polaris/Indian use off the Shelf Bosch ECU units and the software is not proprietary, in fact Dynojet has a ECU flash module (PVCX) that can copy and save your current ECU file and let you upload new flash files just like Ivan does. The product also has an advanced software package where users and tuners like Ivan can go in and adjust everything. And again many of the dealers are big proponents of upgrades like this, so unless you blow an engine and Polaris actually has to investigate, the dealers will honor your warranty.


As for the EPA, last January they were going to ban ALL Aftermarket Intake, Exhaust or performance items on ALL Vehicles regardless or not if they were really going to be used for racing. Basically if the vehicle came out of the factory as a street vehicle, it couldn't be modified. This would put hundreds of companies out of business. These companies called their congressmen, and the EPA was told to shove it, and they dropped that rule change.

You have noticed however that all the aftermarket products now really highlight for Offroad and racing only.
Actually the PCV and the Dobeck style tuners are bypassing the bikes ECU, while the bikes ECU is still in the loop, the way you connect the PCV and the Dobeck style tuners allow them to bypass the bikes ECU. I had a Dobeck tuner on my Victory Cross Country Tour and it was a great tuner in my opinion.

To many people have had their dealers report to both Harley and Polaris that you installed aftermarket products, i.e. tuner, exhaust, intakes and the manufacture have voided the powertrain warranty. Sure you can try to fight them in court, but they have a lot more money then you do and will tie you up in court for months if not years and in the mean time your bike will sit un-repaired unless you pay out of your pocket and then hope you win the case to get reimbursed.

The Vance & Hines FP3 saves the ECU stock tune and you can flash the ECU but Harley has voided warranties on the powertrain if they find out you have a tuner, and where they get you even if you remove the tuner and put the stock tune back in for your warranty service is the ECU has a counter built into it that keeps track of how many times the ECU has been flashed, they already know from their own records if they have flashed the ECU and how many times they have done it so when you show up and your ECU has been flashed 8 times or 20 times they know you have a tuner for the bike and that is their grounds for voiding your powertrain warranty.
 

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It is not JUST for more power. Manufactures run these engines VERY lean to pass EPA. This is hard on the engine. If you ride like a sane person with the mods there is no reason the engine should not last for hundreds of thousands of miles if taken care of. In my business I am seeing engine failure, burned valves, melted pistons etc etc much sooner. Case in point was the GW that was talked about in another thread. I am willing to bet if that engine were properly tuned that would not have happened, but it was tuned from the factory right on the cusp of too lean. This can be especially problematic with our air cooled engines. I saw about a 20 degree drop in my average oil temp, as taken with a heat gun, on the Raider after the Ivan Tune. I see better fuel mileage on almost every vehicle we put a tune on with ADDING fuel. This is on the vehicles that people are not racing everywhere. A tune is not always about that 2 or 3 hp or that 3 orr 5 torque. It is also about the drivability of the machine. Do I recommend a tune for fuel mileage ... no... it is too expensive. It would take forever to regain the cost of the tune, but the better mileage is there.
Thanks, satisfactorily good explanation. Noted!
 

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Have to get someone else to back me up on this, but had thought that the new Venture and Eluder, while maintaining the 113 size, had changed a fair amount on the motor itself? With that, I imagine fuel and air maps wouldn't match up. Quick search on Ivan's page shows the Raider from 08-17, as well as the 06-15 Strato and Roadie, but not listing anything for the newer models as of yet.
 

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Have to get someone else to back me up on this, but had thought that the new Venture and Eluder, while maintaining the 113 size, had changed a fair amount on the motor itself? With that, I imagine fuel and air maps wouldn't match up. Quick search on Ivan's page shows the Raider from 08-17, as well as the 06-15 Strato and Roadie, but not listing anything for the newer models as of yet.
You are correct. As I have done more research they are the same size but, you are correct, there a a lot of differences. I doubt Ivan will come up with a tune any time soon. He buys the bike he tunes so he can spend all the time he needs on it without a customer worrying him about the bike.
 
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