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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there all you fellow SVTC riders. Well, I picked up my bike today. Runs much better!
It seems one of the lifters failed and that in turn damaged the cam surface.
I’m including some pictures for you to examine. A healthy lifter on the left and failed on the right.



 

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Interesting, Glad you got it back.
 

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Me too!! I missed my baby!
1...very glad to see you back in the saddle, Chief!

2...very glad to see that if it had to happen at all...it was a failed part, and NOT any custom reassembly back at the Yamaha Plant, by a rebuild tech. That means...that there should be no other problem(s), if your engine was one of the first 500 serial numbers, that was hand-rebuilt.

3...as I was riding yesterday, Chief...(my serial is 042), I got to thinking that I am now quite glad that my bike is of the first 500 that had come off the production line, and were held back due to a misaligned crankcase seal gasket, and then were hand rebuilt to ASSURE that there would be no crank case engine half's, oil gasket leakage! I didn't say it in prior posts, but I really wasn't leaning to the theory that a tech that was assigned to hand-building your engine screwed up with setting the zero clearance valve lash. Of course I didn't know until now, what it was...but that just didn't 'whisper' to me.

So, considering that we all of the '500 Serial' club, have sort of 'blueprinted' engines....before they recommitted the motorcycle builds to the assembly line, and any robotic placements of gaskets or parts.... I very much feel good about that.


Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Me too!! I missed my baby!
1...very glad to see you back in the saddle, Chief!

2...very glad to see that if it had to happen at all...it was a failed part, and NOT any custom reassembly back at the Yamaha Plant, by a rebuild tech. That means...that there should be no other problem(s), if your engine was one of the first 500 serial numbers, that was hand-rebuilt.

3...as I was riding yesterday, Chief...(my serial is 042), I got to thinking that I am now quite glad that my bike is of the first 500 that had come off the production line, and were held back due to a misaligned crankcase seal gasket, and then were hand rebuilt to ASSURE that there would be no crank case engine half's, oil gasket leakage! I didn't say it in prior posts, but I really wasn't leaning to the theory that a tech that was assigned to hand-building your engine screwed up with setting the zero clearance valve lash. Of course I didn't know until now, what it was...but that just didn't 'whisper' to me.

So, considering that we all of the '500 Serial' club, have sort of 'blueprinted' engines....before they recommitted the motorcycle builds to the assembly line, and any robotic placements of gaskets or parts.... I very much feel good about that.


Joe
Thanks Joe, me too! I’m looking forward to meeting up with GArider at the Dragons Tail in the 14th. ZOOM ZOOM!
 

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Bad Lifter, that was one of my thoughts in the other posts, now run a good quality full synthetic oil that has ester in it, ester has a positive charge and will cling to engine parts, I am going Redline now that I am not going back to the dealer, I have ordered Redline 10w-40 motorcycle oil from Racer Parts Wholesale, I ran this 10w-40 in my 106 CI Victory Cross Country Tour and never had a problem. The Victory 106 CI engines are like this Yamaha 113 CI engine they are air/oil cooled as well. The Victory's were double overhead cam engines with hydraulic lifters, so in the end still very similar to the 113 CI Yamaha.
 

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1...very glad to see you back in the saddle, Chief!

2...very glad to see that if it had to happen at all...it was a failed part, and NOT any custom reassembly back at the Yamaha Plant, by a rebuild tech. That means...that there should be no other problem(s), if your engine was one of the first 500 serial numbers, that was hand-rebuilt.

3...as I was riding yesterday, Chief...(my serial is 042), I got to thinking that I am now quite glad that my bike is of the first 500 that had come off the production line, and were held back due to a misaligned crankcase seal gasket, and then were hand rebuilt to ASSURE that there would be no crank case engine half's, oil gasket leakage! I didn't say it in prior posts, but I really wasn't leaning to the theory that a tech that was assigned to hand-building your engine screwed up with setting the zero clearance valve lash. Of course I didn't know until now, what it was...but that just didn't 'whisper' to me.

So, considering that we all of the '500 Serial' club, have sort of 'blueprinted' engines....before they recommitted the motorcycle builds to the assembly line, and any robotic placements of gaskets or parts.... I very much feel good about that.


Joe
I don't know Joe, whom ever put the engine back together still has to apply assembly lube to the cam lobes or a cam will wear out just like you see in those photos, The lifter and the cam surfaces are where the damage is and that to me looks like a lack of lube on initial start up.

Remember these were still brand new engines when they were torn down with likely only a short start up on them, so if the person who reassembled that one did not lube the cam lobes well there you go.

We will likely never know if it was just a defective part or a mistake during reassembly but if this is a one off issue for Yamaha then I would point to lack of lube during reassembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
1...very glad to see you back in the saddle, Chief!

2...very glad to see that if it had to happen at all...it was a failed part, and NOT any custom reassembly back at the Yamaha Plant, by a rebuild tech. That means...that there should be no other problem(s), if your engine was one of the first 500 serial numbers, that was hand-rebuilt.

3...as I was riding yesterday, Chief...(my serial is 042), I got to thinking that I am now quite glad that my bike is of the first 500 that had come off the production line, and were held back due to a misaligned crankcase seal gasket, and then were hand rebuilt to ASSURE that there would be no crank case engine half's, oil gasket leakage! I didn't say it in prior posts, but I really wasn't leaning to the theory that a tech that was assigned to hand-building your engine screwed up with setting the zero clearance valve lash. Of course I didn't know until now, what it was...but that just didn't 'whisper' to me.

So, considering that we all of the '500 Serial' club, have sort of 'blueprinted' engines....before they recommitted the motorcycle builds to the assembly line, and any robotic placements of gaskets or parts.... I very much feel good about that.


Joe
I don't know Joe, whom ever put the engine back together still has to apply assembly lube to the cam lobes or a cam will wear out just like you see in those photos, The lifter and the cam surfaces are where the damage is and that to me looks like a lack of lube on initial start up.

Remember these were still brand new engines when they were torn down with likely only a short start up on them, so if the person who reassembled that one did not lube the cam lobes well there you go.

We will likely never know if it was just a defective part or a mistake during reassembly but if this is a one off issue for Yamaha then I would point to lack of lube during reassembly.
He Bill, I didn’t take a pic of it but you can see the concave wear in the lifter. Well, it was enough that on one side of the cam that outer edge of the lifter was wearing on the camshaft as well.
I will say that I think there may have been an issue all along. The bike seems much quieter than before. Also, not that it needed it but it seems even MORE “zippy”!
I’m running a 20w-50 full synthetic in there right now and will probably upgrade further to Redline at the next oil change.

I do however have a concern. Since there was that much wear in the lifter & cam, I think it’s imperative I get the dimple plugs ASAP! I obviously did the oil change but I’m concerned about any particulates that didn’t get filtered.
Ordering the dimple plugs today online. Thanks for the info regarding those. Much appreciated!
 

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He Bill, I didn’t take a pic of it but you can see the concave wear in the lifter. Well, it was enough that on one side of the cam that outer edge of the lifter was wearing on the camshaft as well.
I will say that I think there may have been an issue all along. The bike seems much quieter than before. Also, not that it needed it but it seems even MORE “zippy”!
I’m running a 20w-50 full synthetic in there right now and will probably upgrade further to Redline at the next oil change.

I do however have a concern. Since there was that much wear in the lifter & cam, I think it’s imperative I get the dimple plugs ASAP! I obviously did the oil change but I’m concerned about any particulates that didn’t get filtered.
Ordering the dimple plugs today online. Thanks for the info regarding those. Much appreciated!
Chief, when you install the dimple drain plugs you don't have to drain all the oil just remove the stock drain plug and plug the hole with your finger or thumb and then put in the Dimple drain plug, I lost very little oil doing it that way, I bet it was no more than 2 ounces of oil total for all three drain plugs, Oh make you do it when the engine is cold so you don't burn yourself.

What brand of synthetic did you use this time, it might be just as good and if you like it you could just continue using it. I will let you know how the 10w-40 Redline works in mine. If you are running Mobil One 20w-50 v-twin oil that is some very fine oil as well.
 

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He Bill, I didn’t take a pic of it but you can see the concave wear in the lifter. Well, it was enough that on one side of the cam that outer edge of the lifter was wearing on the camshaft as well.
I will say that I think there may have been an issue all along. The bike seems much quieter than before. Also, not that it needed it but it seems even MORE “zippy”!
I’m running a 20w-50 full synthetic in there right now and will probably upgrade further to Redline at the next oil change.

I do however have a concern. Since there was that much wear in the lifter & cam, I think it’s imperative I get the dimple plugs ASAP! I obviously did the oil change but I’m concerned about any particulates that didn’t get filtered.
Ordering the dimple plugs today online. Thanks for the info regarding those. Much appreciated!
I'd probably get the set also, that you put around the outside of your oil filter....!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
He Bill, I didn’t take a pic of it but you can see the concave wear in the lifter. Well, it was enough that on one side of the cam that outer edge of the lifter was wearing on the camshaft as well.
I will say that I think there may have been an issue all along. The bike seems much quieter than before. Also, not that it needed it but it seems even MORE “zippy”!
I’m running a 20w-50 full synthetic in there right now and will probably upgrade further to Redline at the next oil change.

I do however have a concern. Since there was that much wear in the lifter & cam, I think it’s imperative I get the dimple plugs ASAP! I obviously did the oil change but I’m concerned about any particulates that didn’t get filtered.
Ordering the dimple plugs today online. Thanks for the info regarding those. Much appreciated!
Chief, when you install the dimple drain plugs you don't have to drain all the oil just remove the stock drain plug and plug the hole with your finger or thumb and then put in the Dimple drain plug, I lost very little oil doing it that way, I bet it was no more than 2 ounces of oil total for all three drain plugs, Oh make you do it when the engine is cold so you don't burn yourself.

What brand of synthetic did you use this time, it might be just as good and if you like it you could just continue using it. I will let you know how the 10w-40 Redline works in mine. If you are running Mobil One 20w-50 v-twin oil that is some very fine oil as well.
I decided to give Quick Silver a try. It’s made for Mercury Marine engines and had good reviews. Also exceeds all manufacturers specs in all ratings. It doesn’t burn your wallet either.
 

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This discussion brings up an interesting question:

the owners manual calls out the oil you are required to use: usually 20W40 for summer use.

If you put a different weight oil in your bike, does that void your warranty?

I dont understand why people think 50 is better than 40? the viscosity is chosen by the mechanical engineers based on the design of the oil pump, the size of the oil passages, the gap in the bearings, the design of the oil seals, and the temperature range where the bike is being used, all of which results in a targeted oil pressure at the bearings, and ensuring the oil flows sufficiently to each bearing all thru the engine.

If the yamaha engineers say to put 20W40 oil in your bike, why would you put 20W50., or 5W20.. or 60... or W80 in your engine?

The failed lifters is a good example of engine design trade-offs. A bike with mechanical lifters requires the clearance to be adjusted on a regular basis, and they are very reliable, they wear very slowly, but they do have to be adjusted.

Hydraulic lifters never need to be adjusted - but when they fail, they cause extensive damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
This discussion brings up an interesting question:

the owners manual calls out the oil you are required to use: usually 20W40 for summer use.

If you put a different weight oil in your bike, does that void your warranty?

I dont understand why people think 50 is better than 40? the viscosity is chosen by the mechanical engineers based on the design of the oil pump, the size of the oil passages, the gap in the bearings, the design of the oil seals, and the temperature range where the bike is being used, all of which results in a targeted oil pressure at the bearings, and ensuring the oil flows sufficiently to each bearing all thru the engine.

If the yamaha engineers say to put 20W40 oil in your bike, why would you put 20W50., or 5W20.. or 60... or W80 in your engine?

The failed lifters is a good example of engine design trade-offs. A bike with mechanical lifters requires the clearance to be adjusted on a regular basis, and they are very reliable, they wear very slowly, but they do have to be adjusted.

Hydraulic lifters never need to be adjusted - but when they fail, they cause extensive damage.
I talked to the dealership and they said it’s fine.
As a matter of fact, the Yamaha Service Manual says that 20w-50 IS acceptable. Here’s a pic of the applicable page within the manual.
I don’t know where you’re getting that it’s MUST be 20w-40?
Actually looking at the temperature gradients, it looks like a 10w-50 will give you a good “year round” oil to use both in hot and cold climates.
 

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Yamaha calls for a wide range of acceptable oils from 10w-40 to 15w- 50, 20w-40 and 20w50. Of course just like all manufactures they recommend their own brand of oil in this case Yamalube.
 

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I just did a quick search on the Mercury Marine oils and from what I can find they are a synthetic blend oil, which I am taking to mean they are no more than a group 2 petroleum oil blended with group 3 hydro cracked which is being called synthetic.

According to Mercury, the new Merc 25W-40 is a blend of mineral and synthetic base stocks in a ratio that achieves the desired viscosity and durability.

While likely a decent oil it is highly doubtful it contains any true group 4 or group 5 synthetic base oil in it. Mercury has cleverly labeled it by calling it a "Synthetic Blend" instead of calling it a "Semi Synthetic".
 

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I talked to the dealership and they said it’s fine.
As a matter of fact, the Yamaha Service Manual says that 20w-50 IS acceptable. Here’s a pic of the applicable page within the manual.
I don’t know where you’re getting that it’s MUST be 20w-40?
Actually looking at the temperature gradients, it looks like a 10w-50 will give you a good “year round” oil to use both in hot and cold climates.
I think they made a misprint in their manuals as well because Yamaha does not Mae a 15w-40 they do however make a 15w-50.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I just did a quick search on the Mercury Marine oils and from what I can find they are a synthetic blend oil, which I am taking to mean they are no more than a group 2 petroleum oil blended with group 3 hydro cracked which is being called synthetic.

According to Mercury, the new Merc 25W-40 is a blend of mineral and synthetic base stocks in a ratio that achieves the desired viscosity and durability.

While likely a decent oil it is highly doubtful it contain any true group 4 or group 5 synthetic base oil in it. Mercury has cleverly labeled it by calling it a "Synthetic Blend" in stead of calling it a "Semi Synthetic".
Interesting. Well, I’m sure it’s still better than Yamalube and it’s not my final choice for sure!
Thanks for the info.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
He Bill, I didn’t take a pic of it but you can see the concave wear in the lifter. Well, it was enough that on one side of the cam that outer edge of the lifter was wearing on the camshaft as well.
I will say that I think there may have been an issue all along. The bike seems much quieter than before. Also, not that it needed it but it seems even MORE “zippy”!
I’m running a 20w-50 full synthetic in there right now and will probably upgrade further to Redline at the next oil change.

I do however have a concern. Since there was that much wear in the lifter & cam, I think it’s imperative I get the dimple plugs ASAP! I obviously did the oil change but I’m concerned about any particulates that didn’t get filtered.
Ordering the dimple plugs today online. Thanks for the info regarding those. Much appreciated!
I'd probably get the set also, that you put around the outside of your oil filter....!!!!
Here’s a link to the magnets!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlLY3AQkNGQ
 

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Interesting. Well, I’m sure it’s still better than Yamalube and it’s not my final choice for sure!
Thanks for the info.
I have tried to research the Yamalube oils 15w-50 to be precise, and all I could find on it was that the additive package was on the weak side, I attribute that to the catalytic converter, the API demands that zinc be reduced all in the name of the catalytic converter. If you have an engine that does not burn oil there is no documented evidence that high levels of zinc will hurt the catalytic converter, now if you are burning oil then yes zinc can damage the catalytic converter but if that is going on you have worse problems any way.

I am just going to stick with what has worked for me for years now, Redline synthetic oils, for the Yamaha Star Venture I am going to go with the 10w-40, the additive package is the same as it is in the Redline 20w-50.

I ran the Redline 10W-40 in my Victory and everything was fine.
 

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ChiefGunner,

On your bike they found that a lifter was wearing and a cam lobe, that is an indication of lack of lubrication on the engines initial start up, but you also had said the mechanic said the rocker arm was bad originally.

In you final posts you only mentioned the lifter and cam as being the bad parts. Was there anything wrong with the rocker arm and shaft or was was it just the worn lifter and cam lobe?

Also was the lifter for the rear cylinder or the front cylinder?

Just curious.
 
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