[stevea]

I am a newbie to the forum and just picked up an '08 VStar 1100 Custom yesterday. It has only 1015 miles. I used synthetic oil in my previous bike (Suzuki VS800 Intruder). I did not see any info in the owner's manual but I was wondering if the bike has to have a certain # of miles before switching to a sysnthetic oil. In cars, it's recommended to let the engine break in on dyno oil until the valves seat properly.

Can anyone tell me when it would be ok to switch to synthetic in my 1100?

Is the Yamaha synthetic the way to go or are there other good choices?

Thanks....

 

[DMTJOY]

I have an 06 1100 classic and have been using Amsoil 20w50 for the past 35k miles. I know have 60k with no oil useage. I would wait until the engine has at least 5k miles before switching to the synthetic. but this is just my opinion. Try the Amsoil web site for more information.

 

[Dr Pyro]

I am a newbie to this forum as well..congrats on the custom....the yamaha synthetic is a good oil as is the amsoil......I run Mobil 1 synthetic 20w-50w summer and 10w-40w winter in my road*.....the motorcycle specific Mobil 1......5 k would be about right for the break-in period as the main thing is the rings need a few miles to get fully seated in.....after that..pick a name brand motorcycle specific oil you like and that is readily available to you and enjoy.

 

[stevea]

Thanks for the advice on waiting for 5,000 or so miles until the rings are properly seated before switching over to synthetic oil. I have heard that same advice for high performance cars. I guess an engine is an engine, no matter what frame surrounds it.

My bike has not yet had its initial service done on it. As I mentioned when I started this thread, I bought the bike a month ago with only 1015 miles on it. For this initial service, since it has a factory warranty on it until next July, I will take it to a local Yamaha dealer to check it over and make any adjustements that may be needed. I will also have the dealer install the oil filter relocation kit I just bought since I want them to change the oil anyway. After that, I will most likely put the bike away for the season since it is getting pretty chilly here in the Boston area.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

No break-in period is necessary. The initial oil change is to get machining and casting debris out of the engine.

At that point, you can switch to a Synthetic oil.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

 

[newstarowner]

Is it really necessary to use motorcycle synthetic or can reg synthetic be used in a bike?
I have read articles that it really doesn't make a difference.

 

[hig4s]

Is it really necessary to use motorcycle synthetic or can reg synthetic be used in a bike?
I have read articles that it really doesn't make a difference.

You can use synthetic from the first oil change, I've done it on several cars and motorcycles.

You don't really need motorcycle oil, but if you use auto oil check the API service circle on the back. If it says "energy conserving" the additives may cause clutch slippage.

Back in the old days it was easy, any auto Mobil 1 with a red cap was safe to use in bikes. But they keep changing their packaging, so you have to watch the label on the back of the bottle.

 

[linerdave]

600 check up

steve,

My opinion, as the Amsoil dealer said, after the 600 mile check up and oil change it would be OK to start Synthetic oil.

Here is some reading about oils. Might help you make the choice.

http://www.sloneservices.com/SilverBack/VStar1100-FAQ-01.htm#Which-Oil

Dave

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

Is it really necessary to use motorcycle synthetic or can reg synthetic be used in a bike?
I have read articles that it really doesn't make a difference.

steve,

My opinion, as the Amsoil dealer said, after the 600 mile check up and oil change it would be OK to start Synthetic oil.

Here is some reading about oils. Might help you make the choice.

http://www.sloneservices.com/SilverBack/VStar1100-FAQ-01.htm#Which-Oil

Dave

If for some reason, you wish to use an automotive oil, here is what is required. An API Rating of SG... A higher API Rating MAY be used (SH, SL, etc...) BUT, it must then carry a JASO MA or MA 2 Rating.

Auto and Diesel oils today have reduced amounts of ZDP which is an Anti-Wear agent especially for the cam and lifters. Late model Auto/Diesel engines require much less ZDP as they utilize Roller Lifters.

Not only that, A Premium M/C oil will have additives for the clutch, Anti-Wear additives for the tranny, Anti-Rust and Corrosion Inhibitors which are necessary for non running periods as short as 2 weeks.

If someone tells you there is no difference between M/C oils and Auto/Diesel oils, they don't have a clue to what they are talking about.

Look at these tests http://bestoil4you.com/files/MC_Oil_Study.pdf and pick one of the Top 3 Finishers, I believe page 23, and you will be assured of having one of the Best oils available.

Oil, is the LifeBlood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[hig4s]

If for some reason, you wish to use an automotive oil, here is what is required. An API Rating of SG... A higher API Rating MAY be used (SH, SL, etc...) BUT, it must then carry a JASO MA or MA 2 Rating.

Auto and Diesel oils today have reduced amounts of ZDP which is an Anti-Wear agent especially for the cam and lifters. Late model Auto/Diesel engines require much less ZDP as they utilize Roller Lifters.

Not only that, A Premium M/C oil will have additives for the clutch, Anti-Wear additives for the tranny, Anti-Rust and Corrosion Inhibitors which are necessary for non running periods as short as 2 weeks.

If someone tells you there is no difference between M/C oils and Auto/Diesel oils, they don't have a clue to what they are talking about.

Look at these tests http://bestoil4you.com/files/MC_Oil_Study.pdf and pick one of the Top 3 Finishers, I believe page 23, and you will be assured of having one of the Best oils available.

Oil, is the LifeBlood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

so where is the data comparing the motorcycle oils to the auto oils?

 

[schau_dog]

honestly yall i dont understand why yall gotta make this so complicated to a newbie simple way to solve what he should run in his bike is go to your local yamaha dealer and buy yamaha specific oil.... problem solved no need to make things complicated ... yamahalube is a oil make for our bikes period its all i have ever used in my bikes and i have never had an oil related issue

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

so where is the data comparing the motorcycle oils to the auto oils?

All over the place. Sportrider Magazine has ran an article twice showing that there is a difference.

Of course, heads up testing is rare as it is an Apple/Orange comparison. You have to look at the testing of each class to compare and look at the API Ratings for an auto oil to see if it meets Minimum Requirements.

Or, you coukld just use the proper oil for the Application.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[hig4s]

All over the place. Sportrider Magazine has ran an article twice showing that there is a difference.

Of course, heads up testing is rare as it is an Apple/Orange comparison. You have to look at the testing of each class to compare and look at the API Ratings for an auto oil to see if it meets Minimum Requirements.

Or, you coukld just use the proper oil for the Application.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

Rare? I have yet to see any real tests of motorcycle oils against non energy conserving auto oils..

And as far as the tests go, all that three ball, four ball, viscosity before and after, is all just a starting point in real world applications. The hard and fast is using empirical results. For many years I raced ATVs and dirtbikes, and had friends that road raced. The oils that did best in the tests did not always do best in actual use.

We had one road race bike that could not use Amsoil, it would lose too much oil over the course of the race, but was fine on Mobil 1.

Then we had one 2 stroke motocross bike the ran so well on Amsoil pre-mix that it went a whole season without a top end and all the other bikes, even if they ran other synthetics, needed at least two.

It all depends.. but bottom line, in non racing applications when changed at manufacturers interval, virtually any oil will be fine for the engine, just some of the energy conserving will not be so good for the clutch.

Personally I do extended oil change intervals, that is why I use premium synthetics, Mobil 1, Amsoil or Syntec.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

Rare? I have yet to see any real tests of motorcycle oils against non energy conserving auto oils..


Personally I do extended oil change intervals, that is why I use premium synthetics, Mobil 1, Amsoil or Syntec.

Why would anyone spend Thousands of Dollars to test an auto oil against a M/C oil ?

If that is what you want, open your checkbook.. Somewhere around $30 Grand should get a relative battery of tests started.

Well let's see... You must be comparing auto oils... Only Mobil 1 auto oil that is PAO Based is the Extended Performance and it is only about 30%, SynTec is a Hydro-Cracked oil, No PAO or Esters...

I have several M/C Race Teams that use AMSOIL MCF. One is a Podium 3 bike team where with the previous Synthetic, they had to rebuild 2-3 times a year.. 2009 was first year with AMSOIL.. No Majors, No Freshen ups and over the Winter when the engine builder tore them down, he was so amazed that he signed up as a Dealer.

2010 is going well for them

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[hig4s]

Why would anyone spend Thousands of Dollars to test an auto oil against a M/C oil ?

If that is what you want, open your checkbook.. Somewhere around $30 Grand should get a relative battery of tests started.

The tests are the same, all they would have to do is collate the data from existing tests and release it in a usable format.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

The tests are the same, all they would have to do is collate the data from existing tests and release it in a usable format.

Only some of the tests are the same.

Motorcycle oils are tested for foaming, anti-corrosion, JASO for wet clutch etc....

Motorcycle oils usually have a higher TBN than auto oils. They have a higher ZDP content as Most auto oils are now are SJ, SL or SM rated and will not pass a JASO MA Rating.

Some M/C oils also have Specific additives anti-wear additives for the transmission.

It is not as simple as one thinks when looking at oils designed for a Specific application instead of a "Multi-Fit" Product.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[hig4s]

Only some of the tests are the same.

Motorcycle oils are tested for foaming, anti-corrosion, JASO for wet clutch etc....

Motorcycle oils usually have a higher TBN than auto oils. They have a higher ZDP content as Most auto oils are now are SJ, SL or SM rated and will not pass a JASO MA Rating.

Some M/C oils also have Specific additives anti-wear additives for the transmission.

It is not as simple as one thinks when looking at oils designed for a Specific application instead of a "Multi-Fit" Product.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

And it is not as complicated as you are trying to make it sound.
So just show me all the data from all the tests that are the same. I know Amsoil has paid out through the nose for hundreds of tests on all kinds of oils over the last 25 years. So where is the data?

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

And it is not as complicated as you are trying to make it sound.
So just show me all the data from all the tests that are the same. I know Amsoil has paid out through the nose for hundreds of tests on all kinds of oils over the last 25 years. So where is the data?

There is more to it than you think.

www.amsoil.com

right hand column "Oil Comparisons"

 

[hig4s]

There is more to it than you think.

www.amsoil.com

right hand column "Oil Comparisons"

No there is not,, I got my master motorcycle mechanics license 20 years ago. I have seen all these white papers.

if you check, all the auto oils tested have better 4 ball wear numbers and TBN numbers than most of the motorcycle oils tested.

A lot of the tests are a "who cares" but they are added because the sponsor did well in them.

A few years back there was a test that compared auto oils to motorcycle oils in a magazine. Most of the auto oils did not do as well as motorcycle oils, but that was before the latest upgrade in oil technology. And even then Mobil 1 (non energy conserving) did as well as the motorcycle synthetics, and Castrol GTX about the same as the motorcycle dino oils.

Besides that is just a fact, that the recommended oil change interval by the manufacturer is conservative enough that you really cannot cause oil related engine problems with any oil if you follow them. The only real issue that can happen with auto energy conserving auto oils is burning a clutch. And I dragged raced 750 Street class using plain Pennzoil auto oil back in the 80s and only burnt one clutch ever.

I will agree that motorcycle oils are better. But I will not agree they are worth the extra price or really necessary.

 

[newstarowner]

Boy ! You guys sure geet heated up on this site. I expect the Amsoil dealer to praise his products and everyone is intitled to their opinion, but if oil is a problem here just use the Yamaha lube and be done with it! It's formulated for their bikes and if there oil is no good then they probably wouldn't be in business.
I am sure synthetic oil is probably better than regular dino oil, but if you change your oil and filter on a regular basis then there should never be a oil related problem! There are enough parts on these bikes to go bad and many have nothing to do with oil.
My bike is only three weeks old and I only have 550 miles on it. I just changed the oil and filter, which should be done by 600 miles. I will also change the oil way before the next scheduled required service. I don't expect to have a problem with anything oil related if I continue with that type of program.
My last bike had 3000 miles on it before I traded and I changed the oil and filter every 800 miles. I will probably do the same to my new bike. I do hope to keep this one longer than the last, but who knows.