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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If you decide to Dark Side your SVTC rear tire....hopefully, you will find a car tire mounter (for no motorcycle dealer will do this for reasons of legal liability) that will not destroy your air pressure sensors upon your SVTC rim. They (like Walmart, as an example, possible re and re source) will not know how to dismount and mount a tire with keeping their tire mounting machine and shims, not destroying your sensor pods. Be careful....and I'd check with my motorcycle insurer...for I just bet, they will NOT have to pay out, or insure/underwrite your legal liabilities to another, should you put a car tire on your bike...an action, that is not approved by any motorcycle manufacturer to do so, as a replacement for the OEM tire.

I don't know...for a fact, but I'll bet, that in doing so,...will void your insurance, should you wipe out, or have the tire come apart and/or delaminate, and destroy any part of your motorcycle. I'd also check to see, that if you Dark Side, and cause injury to another, yourself, your passenger, any that you might cause personal injury and/or death to, as a result of mounting a tire not designed for motorcycle applications....will you be covered by your motorcycle insurer, for all damages and medical/wrongful death lawsuit claims enacted against you? I'd do that, before I even went shopping for a car tire, run upon a motorcycle.

Seeking extended tire wear, (by 'Dark Siding') might in the long run,...be the most expensive thing, and an act of personal financial ruin, you have ever afflicted yourself with....

Check out your legal liabilities and your insurance-status, before Dark Siding, and totally before you lay a wrench to the back axle....

The smart rider, not wishing to shoot themselves in the foot,....will do so!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
42nd verse
same as the first
a little bit louder
a little bit worse...
Pardon? And this reply means what?

Some riders who are tempted to Dark Side their ride...or even have Dark Sided their ride....are tempted by the chance of riding more miles upon a cheaper tire not built for the intended purpose. It can seem a 'wise' and frugal decision, right up to the very minute that choice causes non-reversible loss of property, loss of health, loss of life. Loss of financial security, with pending lawsuits brought against you....

'a little bit worse'...? No my friend...a hell of a lot worse....for the decision...right up to the very minute it goes to s*it.....at the side of the road/highway, with cop light's flashing off of what's left of your chrome, first responders light's flashing off the same, and the following weeks later (if you survive) sitting beside your lawyer, with the lights of the courtroom shining down upon the both of you.

The sounds of silence as the Court comes to order,...can be the 'loud part' of your verse response, with no ringing of the phone coming ever, from the motorcycle insurance underwriter agent...answering your first call to them...for they have access to the first responder police officers at scene, having taken pictures of your bike with the car tire installed, and what's left of it...BEFORE you get a chance (if in fact, you are still alive to try it...) to remove it off of your bike, as some think they can do...after the fact. Gambling with your life, and the life of your co-rider, as well as other users of the road,...and for what? A couple of hundred dollars more cost to put a proper and purpose-built tire on a vehicle that is already 40 times more dangerous to operate than a car, truck, or van...WITH a proper purpose-rated and carcass built tire on the front and back?!?!

A rider has to ask themselves, how much is my life worth, for myself and my co-rider, as well as anyone else, my decision might impact running the 'Dark Side'.....
I would hope, that they feel their life, and the life of their co-rider, (usually their wife or husband) and retainment of good health and continued Life, for both, is----> WORTH a couple of hundred dollars more...than the cost of running the Dark Side, when tires are needed to be replaced. I would hope so.....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Readers need a warning of the Dark Side of Dark Siding....when the topic threads appears at times on different forums, when the glint of a few thousand more miles, blinds their eyes...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I know, KCW...the song can be sung...right up until the time, ...the tire blows/delaminates...the bike skids out of control...the riders get ejected onto the highway,....and the singing stops....usually quite abruptly... Yep...the day, the 'music' died....yep.

Cheers,
 

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No you dont quite see the humor in the situation.

When people hear about motorcycle riders putting car tires on their bikes, they get very emotional and passionate about the darkside. It sounds like you have just been baptized into the faith.

The arguments for and against are always the same. The debates and yelling are always the same.

In the end nothing is resolved. No one can point to one case where a car tire on a motorcycle has actually failed and caused an accident. No one can point to one case where an insurance company refused to honor a policy because of a car tire on a motorcycle. In this variation I really cannot imagine someone buying a new $20,000 Venture bike, and sneaking into a back ally motorcycle shop to have 6 finger Jim put a car tire on his new motorcycle.

I apologize for giving into the humor of your post, the topic really is like a black hole, you look at it and you get sucked in and never come out. Its not your fault.

But like the camp fire song that cub scouts sing, it really is funny how it happens continuously, and there is no end to it.

Nothing personal. I do appreciate your compassion and concern for other riders.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
No you dont quite see the humor in the situation.

When people hear about motorcycle riders putting car tires on their bikes, they get very emotional and passionate about the darkside. It sounds like you have just been baptized into the faith.

The arguments for and against are always the same. The debates and yelling are always the same.

In the end nothing is resolved. No one can point to one case where a car tire on a motorcycle has actually failed and caused an accident. No one can point to one case where an insurance company refused to honor a policy because of a car tire on a motorcycle.

I apologize for giving into the humor of your post, the topic really is like a black hole, you look at it and you get sucked in and never come out. Its not your fault.

But like the camp fire song that cub scouts sing, it really is funny how it happens continuously.

Nothing personal. I thought we just had one of these threads a few months ago.
My post was prompted by reading of another member here...upon another site, that is now seriously thinking of putting a car tire upon his SVTC. He's a nice guy...and just wanted him to think...seriously think about it. There is no motorcycle dealer that will even perform a re and re, no doubt because of legal liability in doing so. I am going, out of sheer curiosity, to call a few motorcycle insurance agents representing at least three insurance companies, here in Ontario...and put it right to them...in asking, can I install a car tire, a tire upon my motorcycle that is not duty-rated, or carcass purposed, for such installations...and if it fails...and causes damage, or 3rd party loss of life, loss of life to the riders, or any level of medical emergency...WILL THEY cover all liabilities?

I honestly can not believe that there is no case law, of motorcycle insurers, having to still pick up the liabilities, upon the insured, even if the insured knowingly puts on a tire, not purpose-rated, not recommended, or approved for use, by any motorcycle manufacturer....and I personally know of a couple (with trailer, with dark siding) that died en-route to a Wing Ding...(it was announced what had happened to warn all other attendees), back in 2000. I am not 'new' to Dark Siding. I know of the death of a couple of Wingers...who Dark Sided, so...your conjectures KCW, is off....I can't say, right now...until I call around about the legal liabilities at risk to the owner, in regards to staying insured...but I absolutely know...that Dark Siding, can kill you and your co-rider. There is one less GoldWing couple, riding today...and have been in their graves, since 2000.
 

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Im sure there have been many people injured or killed while riding with a car tire on a motorcycle.

The practice tends to appeal to riders with big/heavy bikes, riding two up, sometimes pulling a trailer, and riding long distances. All of those things increase the risk level of riding.

If you can find some documentation that states the cause of their accident was the car tire, you will be the first.

BTW, honda and yamaha both state plainly in their manuals that none of their motorcycles are designed to pull a trailer. The MSF recommends you do not attach a trailer to your motorcycle.

I have seen photos of your GW pulling a trailer. Its all a matter of perspective. There is no right or wrong answer, just a gradient of risks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Im sure there have been many people injured or killed while riding with a car tire on a motorcycle.

The practice tends to appeal to riders with big/heavy bikes, riding two up, sometimes pulling a trailer, and riding long distances. All of those things increase the risk level of riding.

If you can find some documentation that states the cause of their accident was the car tire, you will be the first.

BTW, honda and yamaha both state plainly in their manuals that none of their motorcycles are designed to pull a trailer. The MSF recommends you do not attach a trailer to your motorcycle.

I have seen photos of your GW pulling a trailer. Its all a matter of perspective. There is no right or wrong answer, just a gradient of risks.
On all of the above stated, no contest...except for your absolution (and personal viewpoint to date) that no coroner's report, or police report, in-field, stated that the use of a non-authorized tire-carcass type, by manufacturers of all types of motorcycles, did NOT lead as a major or dominant cause to the crash accident, and liability of loss of life or limb. I am certainly now, going to enact some due diligence on this topic...as well as talk to a few of my friends, who are police officers, mainly posted with the O.P.P. of Ontario.

Same goes obviously for attaching a trailer to a motorcycle that clearly was not designed for pulling a load behind the motorcycle, as you KCW, accurately state!

So...I now have an interesting and engaging search for such documentation, as well as a few chats that's going to get 'chatted' with my O.P.P. buds...and see what slaps up against the 'concrete highway wall barrier'...so to speak. ;)

Post Edit: KCW, it wasn't any of my 5 GoldWings that you saw pulling a trailer. I have never attached, and pulled a trailer or any other contrivance aft of my rear tire. You might be thinking of Rob (bucfan11)...the owner of a white 2008 GW. Yes...he has pulled a trailer, and has already engaged in Dark Siding, as per his posting of that fact.

Cheers,

Joe
 

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I do not have a dog in the hunt on this one. Ride on car tires, or don't, best wishes from me either way.

I will say that I used to run a car tire on the rear and a reversed rear on the front. I developed a slight steering wobble a couple years back and couldn't figure it out. Took it in to the shop. That front tire looked absolutely pristine to me--still had mucho tread on it. Probably had 12k on it. The tech looked at the bike for a second and pressed on the front tire firmly with his finger and the tread was nearly completely separated. The lack of tread wear masked a tire that was falling apart. I was lucky I made it to the shop. Given the appearance of that tire, I never woulda suspected anything.

Now, what does that mean? Maybe nothing. But I decided then no more funny business for me. MC tires, fronts on the front, rears on the rear, for me. I offer this as no more than a single data point. No evangelism intended.

Stay safe, whatever your choices are!
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I do not have a dog in the hunt on this one. Ride on car tires, or don't, best wishes from me either way.

I will say that I used to run a car tire on the rear and a reversed rear on the front. I developed a slight steering wobble a couple years back and couldn't figure it out. Took it in to the shop. That front tire looked absolutely pristine to me--still had mucho tread on it. Probably had 12k on it. The tech looked at the bike for a second and pressed on the front tire firmly with his finger and the tread was nearly completely separated. The lack of tread wear masked a tire that was falling apart. I was lucky I made it to the shop. Given the appearance of that tire, I never woulda suspected anything.

Now, what does that mean? Maybe nothing. But I decided then no more funny business for me. MC tires, fronts on the front, rears on the rear, for me. I offer this as no more than a single data point. No evangelism intended.

Stay safe, whatever your choices are!
I imagine that that's what put the two GoldWing riders in 2000 down, and to perish. Simply stated, flat profile carcassed car tires, are not designed to handle the pounds-per-inch placed on the outside tread lip, as well as when being torqued into the road and the corner. They will tread separate, and the tire wall will fatigue. As you state, they will look good right up to the very second, the tire catastrophically fails. Motorcycle tires are more costly, of course because of a lower run production, but also, the carcass to tread binding has been engineered to withstand speeds up to 180 mph, as well as any friction heat rated at their top continuous speeds. When into a lean, the side walls are just as strong in their tread lamination, as the center ridge.

Is my life and the life of my dear wife, worth two hundred more dollars, and a more frequent swap out, than if I ran a car tire on either the front or back of my two wheeled vehicle? Yes...absolutely yes....for as they say, any money saved by running car tires upon two wheeled motorcycles, can NOT be spent elsewhere, when laying in a grave. I'd rather spend the money, while alive and well. We have too much to live for...to Russian Roulette, and place a car tire, to either of our temples, with the trigger, the throttle grip....too many more places to Tour, before we close our eyes for the Big Sleep.

As others have stated on this warning thread, no evangelizing ever intended (unless my personal bias NOT to put cars tires where they were not intended to be used and installed, can be seen as evangelizing)...I created this thread to cause someone I hold as a great guy and his wife...to think, think again, think once more...before making a decision to put a car tire, upon a motorcycle. If I have done that...then the purpose of this thread has been accomplished, no matter which way he decides to 'skin' his bike thereafter. I wish him (as well as everybody riding everywhere) only the best experiences in our mutual hobbies... I don't mention this person's name, as I don't need to...I'm sure, this good guy, can assume, who I am typing about...

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
In my personal research so far...this is the best article of whether to join the ranks of those that have Dark Sided, to those that support the view (such as myself) that motorcycle tires are specifically designed to be placed onto a 45 or more degree side angle...and that THAT is purpose-built into the carcass, tread, and surface contact design.

Yes...it is pretty apparent, that my 'bias' leans (if you excuse my sense of humor...) towards running legitimate rubber under both my wife and myself...but again...this fantastic article goes in-depth...to fairly comment for both sides of a subject, that almost is as much a hot spot, as topics on politics, or choice of religion, as they do the wink/wink/nudge/nudge smiling comparison to...

So..grab a coffee, and belt in...for a ride on both sides of the 'topic rim'...:)

No matter your take upon the topic...Y'all have safe rides always!

https://ridermagazine.com/2016/05/20/tales-from-the-dark-side-putting-car-tires-on-motorcycles/

https://ridermagazine.com/2012/06/11/erasing-doubt-car-tires-on-motorcycles/

https://ridermagazine.com/2012/06/11/avoiding-tire-failure-getting-the-most-from-the-tires-that-were-meant-for-your-bike/


Joe
 

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Well, I was the one considering going “Darkside”. After much research and everyone saying the NO evidence of tire failure could be found, I DID find it.
This video include a story a Wing rider who had Darksided. He was riding 2 up and aggressive in the corners when the tire bead UNSEATED and the tire when flat in an instant. Fortunately he stated that he was not going that fast and did not completely lose control of the bike. After that incident he stopped Darksiding.
That information of the ONE incident was enough for my wife to say “NO, let’s not do it”.
So, I’ve considered ANOTHER option which is to look at a 60 series tire vs a 55. It is a bit taller so gives a bit more ground clearance. Speedo is off at 65mph that actual speed would be almost 67... that’s not enough to worry about. Then there’s the fact that you have a much larger MC tire selection and at 1/2-2/3 the cost of the OEM size. Suddenly you have Avon, Goodyear, Dunlop, Metzler and others to choose from and it IS a MC tire being used as designed.
So, that’s where we are at this time. I’ll keep ya informed as we decide.

Here’s that video link I was telling you about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1qlvnjLXnc
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Well, I was the one considering going “Darkside”. After much research and everyone saying the NO evidence of tire failure could be found, I DID find it.
This video include a story a Wing rider who had Darksided. He was riding 2 up and aggressive in the corners when the tire bead UNSEATED and the tire when flat in an instant. Fortunately he stated that he was not going that fast and did not completely lose control of the bike. After that incident he stopped Darksiding.
That information of the ONE incident was enough for my wife to say “NO, let’s not do it”.
So, I’ve considered ANOTHER option which is to look at a 60 series tire vs a 55. It is a bit taller so gives a bit more ground clearance. Speedo is off at 65mph that actual speed would be almost 67... that’s not enough to worry about. Then there’s the fact that you have a much larger MC tire selection and at 1/2-2/3 the cost of the OEM size. Suddenly you have Avon, Goodyear, Dunlop, Metzler and others to choose from and it IS a MC tire being used as designed.
So, that’s where we are at this time. I’ll keep ya informed as we decide.

Here’s that video link I was telling you about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1qlvnjLXnc
Tony, I guess everybody knew anyway, that I was thinking of you and your wife riding soon above a car tire on your SVTC...and that just creeped me right out. That, prompted honestly, this whole thread. I am SO GLAD to read this post that you and your wife's lives are worth the use of a sanctioned tire combo...and even if you need to refresh them more than someone Russian Roulette'ing with more miles on their Kumo...or whatever. Ok...I can now sleep nights again, lol! Hey...it was really creeping me out...lol.

Great to read...safe trips on either Dunlops, or Bridestones....and for my next round (I am still running the OEM's...) I am seriously looking at the new Dunlop's just to do a A/B comparison test. BTW, I'm also open to running at the 60 aspect...to open up the full choice as you are thinking now of. I'm going to monitor that as well. Why they went with a 55 aspect...I need to further explore. So...again, good to read that you and your wife will still be above sanctioned, safe rubber!!! The only thing that might be something to think about with going '60'...is that your bike will no longer be level...and that pitch forward, might in fact start to wear out the front tire faster with more weight being borne. Don't know for sure...but something that can be asked for some direction.

Going up North as soon as we can...for it's still raining this morning. We didn't catch the colors on the Avalon trip...so wanted to see some russets and golds...not way up north, but starting in a north direction....and you can bet...it will be motorcycle tires that are going to be under us, lol! Oh yeah...oh.....yeah!

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #17
A quote from a responder to the article above...and I have always gotten around the same as this chap on our 3rd Party Dunlops skinned to our past Wings...

I think..checking your tire pressures every day before a ride...adding two or more pounds to the front and back (as I do...) when fully two-upped and gear loaded....is the key to longevity with MC tires...

Robert Taylor February 24, 2018 at 10:32 am
"A lot of people with car tires I’ve talked to said they get close to 30,000 miles on those tires. I run Dunlop Elite 4’s on my GL1500 GoldWing and I get around 24,000 out of the rear tires and have gotten close to 32,000 miles on the front tire. I also pulled a camper trailer for 75% of those miles. That’s good enough for me."
 

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Well, I was the one considering going “Darkside”. After much research and everyone saying the NO evidence of tire failure could be found, I DID find it.
This video include a story a Wing rider who had Darksided. He was riding 2 up and aggressive in the corners when the tire bead UNSEATED and the tire when flat in an instant. Fortunately he stated that he was not going that fast and did not completely lose control of the bike. After that incident he stopped Darksiding.
That information of the ONE incident was enough for my wife to say “NO, let’s not do it”.
So, I’ve considered ANOTHER option which is to look at a 60 series tire vs a 55. It is a bit taller so gives a bit more ground clearance. Speedo is off at 65mph that actual speed would be almost 67... that’s not enough to worry about. Then there’s the fact that you have a much larger MC tire selection and at 1/2-2/3 the cost of the OEM size. Suddenly you have Avon, Goodyear, Dunlop, Metzler and others to choose from and it IS a MC tire being used as designed.
So, that’s where we are at this time. I’ll keep ya informed as we decide.

Here’s that video link I was telling you about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1qlvnjLXnc
Tony, I guess everybody knew anyway, that I was thinking of you and your wife riding soon above a car tire on your SVTC...and that just creeped me right out. That, prompted honestly, this whole thread. I am SO GLAD to read this post that you and your wife's lives are worth the use of a sanctioned tire combo...and even if you need to refresh them more than someone Russian Roulette'ing with more miles on their Kumo...or whatever. Ok...I can now sleep nights again, lol! Hey...it was really creeping me out...lol.

Great to read...safe trips on either Dunlops, or Bridestones....and for my next round (I am still running the OEM's...) I am seriously looking at the new Dunlop's just to do a A/B comparison test. BTW, I'm also open to running at the 60 aspect...to open up the full choice as you are thinking now of. I'm going to monitor that as well. Why they went with a 55 aspect...I need to further explore. So...again, good to read that you and your wife will still be above sanctioned, safe rubber!!! The only thing that might be something to think about with going '60'...is that your bike will no longer be level...and that pitch forward, might in fact start to wear out the front tire faster with more weight being borne. Don't know for sure...but something that can be asked for some direction.

Going up North as soon as we can...for it's still raining this morning. We didn't catch the colors on the Avalon trip...so wanted to see some russets and golds...not way up north, but starting in a north direction....and you can bet...it will be motorcycle tires that are going to be under us, lol! Oh yeah...oh.....yeah!

Cheers,

Joe
The 60 series is about 1/2” taller. Probably not enough to lean you forward as you state, but when I need a new front I’d also convert that to a 60 series so they’d match.
I could see getting a bit more ground clearance for cornering out of this as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Well, I was the one considering going “Darkside”. After much research and everyone saying the NO evidence of tire failure could be found, I DID find it.
This video include a story a Wing rider who had Darksided. He was riding 2 up and aggressive in the corners when the tire bead UNSEATED and the tire when flat in an instant. Fortunately he stated that he was not going that fast and did not completely lose control of the bike. After that incident he stopped Darksiding.
That information of the ONE incident was enough for my wife to say “NO, let’s not do it”.
So, I’ve considered ANOTHER option which is to look at a 60 series tire vs a 55. It is a bit taller so gives a bit more ground clearance. Speedo is off at 65mph that actual speed would be almost 67... that’s not enough to worry about. Then there’s the fact that you have a much larger MC tire selection and at 1/2-2/3 the cost of the OEM size. Suddenly you have Avon, Goodyear, Dunlop, Metzler and others to choose from and it IS a MC tire being used as designed.
So, that’s where we are at this time. I’ll keep ya informed as we decide.

Here’s that video link I was telling you about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1qlvnjLXnc
Tony..I watched the vid...and when CruiseMan talks about whether having a car tire on his motorcycle when making an insurance claim makes no difference, please note...for the adjuster is ASSUMING that a MC tire is on the bike...and obviously, his claims, didn't have the adjuster viewing the bike. It was mostly likely over the phone, and should be pointed out...he DID have a MC tire on both the front and back, during his making claims. That..is an important point!

I just got off with my insurance underwriter...and asked the very question...and put the very question to her, as I outlined in a post above in this thread. She let me finish, and absolutely...absolutely stated that there has been two drop downs on a bike...one GoldWing...one Harley...that had been darksided, and both claims were pushed back to the rider as having outfitted his and her bike, with 3rP tires, car tires, not manufactured to be put into service on that vehicle type.

One of the riders is taking the insurance company's denial of liability and denial of claims, to court...but she said that her chance of arguing successfully in front of a judge and jury, is very much slim, besides the thousands of dollars added to her costs, in lawyer's fees...as well as the total loss of her motorcycle and gear. Thank goodness she has OHIP...in Ontario...for would even a medical insurance provider...such as in the States...would not look to 'open their hands'...at the chance of avoiding all medical costs of a rider putting down the bike, loss of limb or life payout? You'd bet they would look into all avenues to legally deny coverage claims.

So...that's that...my insurance underwriter said that it would NOT be a normal claim...and adjustment...you are opening yourself right up to the insurance company denying claims...medical, as well as property loss. I never was going to Dark Side...but this has solidly answered all my 'I wonder..' questions on the subject of Dark Siding. Cruiseman...hasn't dropped his bike, or killed anybody as a result of putting a car tire upon a motorcycle. I would suggest, that he CALLS his insurer underwriter...and directly asks them if he were to cause an accident, cause death or injury...cause the loss of his motorcycle due to loss of control...WILL THEY cover him, without question? Let him call his insurer, and then post the reply. Today, my insurer underwriter, told me that both claims on those needing to receive benefits, with a Dark Sided motorcycle have been denied, with one rider now having to take her insurer to Court, hopefully to have coverage and claims, enabled. Good luck to her...on winning that one! Her loss, with added court costs...is in the thousands....let alone, if she is being sued herself...for personal injury, death, or 3rdP 'anything'...

Post Edit: Oh..I forgot to mention, that I asked her HOW they knew that the bikes had been Darksided...and she said, police reports, police look at the condition of MC tires...as part of their crash/accident investigation...and note (with also pictures) the condition of the tread, if the tires were still intact upon the rims...and obviously, the rider would be 'outted' in that they put a car tire on their ride....so...as in the two above cases...all claims, denied... "You don't agree? Take us to Court...see ya there, Dark Sider......".
 

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The thing you need to figure out before you change your tire profile from 55 to 60, is whether that extra half inch of tire is going to bury itself into your fender or swing arm when you bottom out the suspension.

Its easy to tell on a car how much taller you can make a tire, because it will hit the spring support on the strut-shocks if it too tall. I dont know how to bottom out the suspension on a motorcycle while looking to see how much clearance you have between the tire and the fenders, and the handful of bolts that hold on the passenger seat... and maybe your tail light wiring.
 
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