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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If you own an SVTC, there are 2 black headed 14 mm bolts that can be seen snug to the fender side, if you open up your tops of the side cases. One of my bolts on the right hand side of the bike, and the forward one, had come loose, and was almost out far enough, for the head of the bolt to touch the inside face of the right side bag lift cover.

The Eluder does NOT have the two bolts mentioned, on either side of the fender...only the SVTC, or standard SV.

Now, the funny thing is...that I could not even turn it out or in, with my fingers, or when they were in a glove, but yet, seemingly, the bolt had turned itself out to the point that the 14 mm head, was just going to contact (!!!!!!!!) the inside lip of the saddle bag cover. I grabbed a 14 mm socket and wrenched it back snug to the fender, and then did a 14 mm torque rating (24 foot pounds) on all four bolts. On my left side, the aft bolt was loose enough, that I could easily turn it with no amount of torque to break a good tightness.

So..folks,...check those four bolts right away...before your next ride. If any of them back out, as you ride, they will eventually come in contact with the inside lip of your saddle bag covers...and start to dig in, through bike movement, and cause blemish damage, let alone that whatever components are held together (mating surfaces) by those bolts, of course, will not be secured.

I'm going to keep an eye on those four bolts...two on each side of the fenders...and make sure they stay properly torqued, at least once a month during the riding season!!!

Post Edit: I'd be curious to want to know, if anybody else after reading this post...sees that any one of those four bolts were loose, or even backing out, on their own SVTC. If so...please post that info on this thread,...so we can see that this will require the attention of all owners, and after the fact, periodically....

Just a FYI!
 

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One of mine was loose. I opened the left saddle bag lid and the bolt pulled right out. Someone over tightened the bolt and stripped out the threads.
 

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The first thing I would want to know is what is their function?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Here is my bolt

Wow...sorry to read this...!

..as I stated, one of mine, the right forward was turning out, and about to touch the inside lip of the right saddle bag!

When I torqued it home, it accepted the proper 24 ftlb's...

The other three snugged up. I imagine that you are going right back to your dealer...to demand a retap and repair! !?!?!?

They can take it all apart and put in a repair 'heli-coil'...just as when someone strips out the spark plug hole.

I think everybody needs to check their four 14 mm bolts......try torquing them to 24 foot lbs...you'll find out soon enough if your dealer cross threaded, or outright stripped the threads...
 

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Called them this morning and talked to the owner. I sent him a email with pictures so he can see them. Of course i have to bring it in. I rather have a new part ordered than having them repair it. I will see. Going to bring it in on Tuesday if its not raining. And it has been for the last three days. Sucks!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Called them this morning and talked to the owner. I sent him a email with pictures so he can see them. Of course i have to bring it in. I rather have a new part ordered than having them repair it. I will see. Going to bring it in on Tuesday if its not raining. And it has been for the last three days. Sucks!!
Well...if the threads have stripped out on the aux aluminum sub frame (and by the colorization of those threads, it seems to be that part of the bike.., I doubt they will give you an entire sub-frame, if a heli-coil will do the trick. They are a pretty strong and fail-safe repair...being they were designed to fix stripped out Spark Plug holes.

I hope you get the best outcome, for obviously this was absolute negligence on the part of the Dealer's tech staff. What I was surprised though by..was that there seems so little of the threaded section of the bolt...that engages the threads of the tapped hole in the frame boss. I would (for comparison, carefully, on the right hands side of the bike, back out and remove one of those, for a thread contact depth comparison. When you tried (I assume) to re-seat that loose bolt, did it just keep turning, which tipped you off, it was stripped?
 

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Called them this morning and talked to the owner. I sent him a email with pictures so he can see them. Of course i have to bring it in. I rather have a new part ordered than having them repair it. I will see. Going to bring it in on Tuesday if its not raining. And it has been for the last three days. Sucks!!
Yep,, that does suck.. I am with you @hunter6462 ,, if it were my new $26,000 1st model year bike and I found that, I would absolutely be inquiring about new replacement parts - especially now that we know that those bolts are a suspected issue.. My experience has been that Heli-Coil's are o.k. BUT it is not uncommon for them to "follow" a bolt back out of the repaired hole = DEFINITELY not as good as new.. I would rather over size the hole and retap but, come on,, we are talking about a 26000 dollar new scoot - not some mini-bike...
Sic em :wink: and please let us know how you come out!!!
Lonestar
 

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Called them this morning and talked to the owner. I sent him a email with pictures so he can see them. Of course i have to bring it in. I rather have a new part ordered than having them repair it. I will see. Going to bring it in on Tuesday if its not raining. And it has been for the last three days. Sucks!!
Yep,, that does suck.. I am with you @hunter6462 ,, if it were my new $26,000 1st model year bike and I found that, I would absolutely be inquiring about new replacement parts - especially now that we know that those bolts are a suspected issue.. My experience has been that Heli-Coil's are o.k. BUT it is not uncommon for them to "follow" a bolt back out of the repaired hole = DEFINITELY not as good as new.. I would rather over size the hole and retap but, come on,, we are talking about a 26000 dollar new scoot - not some mini-bike...
Sic em /forums/images/StarbikeForums_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png and please let us know how you come out!!!
Lonestar
Whenever I’m using a helicoil for repair, I use the HIGH STRENGTH RED threadlock in it when installing. After that, it’s NOT coming out unless heat is applied.
 

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Whenever I’m using a helicoil for repair, I use the HIGH STRENGTH RED threadlock in it when installing. After that, it’s NOT coming out unless heat is applied.
I can understand and agree with your point @ChiefGunner but the question still remains,,,, would you allow such a repair of that fashion be done on your brand new 26,000 dollar motorcycle as a permanent fix or would you request a new replacement part under warranty? By the sounds of things, it is possible we could be talking about a design flaw that may require some added material to the subframe to secure the trunk properly. Or maybe a recall to add a lock nut in behind the subframe or as suggested, maybe a redesign that adds a steel threaded sleeve for added strength.. Bottom line,, it just seems that if the dealership is allowed to cobble it back together and no word about it reaches the manufacturer, they can have real issues and not even know it....
Just something to think about,,, another opinion so to speak..
 

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Whenever I’m using a helicoil for repair, I use the HIGH STRENGTH RED threadlock in it when installing. After that, it’s NOT coming out unless heat is applied.
I can understand and agree with your point @ChiefGunner but the question still remains,,,, would you allow such a repair of that fashion be done on your brand new 26,000 dollar motorcycle as a permanent fix or would you request a new replacement part under warranty? By the sounds of things, it is possible we could be talking about a design flaw that may require some added material to the subframe to secure the trunk properly. Or maybe a recall to add a lock nut in behind the subframe or as suggested, maybe a redesign that adds a steel threaded sleeve for added strength.. Bottom line,, it just seems that if the dealership is allowed to cobble it back together and no word about it reaches the manufacturer, they can have real issues and not even know it....
Just something to think about,,, another opinion so to speak..
I just checked mine and they’re all fine. The bike doesn’t get shipped with the trunk on I think. @YamahaParExcellence Joe went down and saw his arrive in the shopping crate so he could answer that.
That would at least indicate if it was flawed from factory or done at the dealership.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I just checked mine and they’re all fine. The bike doesn’t get shipped with the trunk on I think. @YamahaParExcellence Joe went down and saw his arrive in the shopping crate so he could answer that.
That would at least indicate if it was flawed from factory or done at the dealership.
The trunk IS shipped from the factory installed, but is pitched at a 45 degree angle forward, so it will not contact the back of the shipping carton siding. Then...when your dealer is prepping, they loosen those four bolts, and then bring the trunk down to a level position. Then they should torque to the 24 foot pound spec. The final thing done with the trunk is attaching the co-rider back rest, that is shipped, not assembled to the front of the trunk. Those four 14 mm bolts though, would have no bearing on that part of the assembly. '

So in my case, since May delivery, I had the right forward almost out far enough to start touching the inner lip of the right side bag lid...and the left aft one when I tested it with a 14 mm socket and wrench, turned with no effort...(no 24 foot pounds applied). I torqued all back to a holding 24 foot pounds, but now will monitor them monthly, per riding season. It takes all of 1 minute to test the 24 foot pounds as per spec for a 14 mm bolt.

Post Edit, it also might be a good idea to use Stop Thread on all four, like the Chief stated was a good idea....
 

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I just checked mine and they’re all fine. The bike doesn’t get shipped with the trunk on I think. @YamahaParExcellence Joe went down and saw his arrive in the shopping crate so he could answer that.
That would at least indicate if it was flawed from factory or done at the dealership.
The trunk IS shipped from the factory installed, but is pitched at a 45 degree angle forward, so it will not contact the back of the shipping carton siding. Then...when your dealer is prepping, they loosen those four bolts, and then bring the trunk down to a level position. Then they should torque to the 24 foot pound spec. The final thing done with the trunk is attaching the co-rider back rest, that is shipped, not assembled to the front of the trunk. Those four 14 mm bolts though, would have no bearing on that part of the assembly. '

So in my case, since May delivery, I had the right forward almost out far enough to start touching the inner lip of the right side bag lid...and the left aft one when I tested it with a 14 mm socket and wrench, turned with no effort...(no 24 foot pounds applied). I torqued all back to a holding 24 foot pounds, but now will monitor them monthly, per riding season. It takes all of 1 minute to test the 24 foot pounds as per spec for a 14 mm bolt.

Post Edit, it also might be a good idea to use Stop Thread on all four, like the Chief stated was a good idea....
Thanks for clarifying that Joe.
Appreciate it.
 

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The incorrect torque specs were posted for the trunk bolts in the first post, the correct torque specs from the service manual are on page 4-20 and are 39 lb ft of torque for the four trunk bolts to the rear frame.

The correct torque spec for those who want to check the passenger grab handles are listed in the service manual on page 4-7 and are listed as 28 lb ft of torque.

To the poster with the stripped bolt/threads a Helicoil would be a proper permanent repair and acceptable under warranty. Expecting a new sub frame is not a reasonable expectation.

It is important to post the correct torque specs to avoid improper assembly and part failure.
 

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^ I agree. A helicoil is a proper repair, and some mechanical designs use helicoils into the mating surface from the start - even in stainless steel components. Im not sure why they do this. There is no reason to think of a helicoil as a kludge or bandaid.

The comments about the stripped threads being communicated back to the factory are correct. The engineers need to know if the trunk is not adequately mounted, and the dealers need to know if the bolts are getting stripped out when the bike is prepped for delivery to the customer.

Something else to look at if your bolts have come loose: the max load rating for the trunk. If its being overloaded and the trunk attachment is coming loose, Im afraid that is on you.

I think you will be surprised how little weight the trunk is intended to carry. When I got my Royal Star 1300 I was surprised that the max load rating for the bike was not much more than the max load rating for my VS 650.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The incorrect torque specs were posted for the trunk bolts in the first post, the correct torque specs from the service manual are on page 4-20 and are 39 lb ft of torque for the four trunk bolts to the rear frame.

The correct torque spec for those who want to check the passenger grab handles are listed in the service manual on page 4-7 and are listed as 28 lb ft of torque.

To the poster with the stripped bolt/threads a Helicoil would be a proper permanent repair and acceptable under warranty. Expecting a new sub frame is not a reasonable expectation.

It is important to post the correct torque specs to avoid improper assembly and part failure.
I am well aware that the Service Manual for those four bolts is 39 lb Ft, Bill, for I have purchased the Yamaha SVTC/Eluder Service Manual in soft cover,...and I am also aware that some folks are going to have torque wrenches that are not accurate. Being that these bolts mate to aluminum, AND, that the standard torque rate for a 14 mm headed bolt IS 24 lb ft, I know that if a reader torques to 24 lb ft, they will NOT over torque, and strip carve out their aluminum tap holes.

If owners torque to a full 39 lb ft, they absolutely risk over torquing on non professional and perfectly calibrated torque wrenches. Let the reader decide which torque figure they wish to use. With a 24 lb ft (standard) setting on these 14 mm bolts, that will be sufficient for a good seating, and nowhere near the 'red zone' for owner-damage by over torquing. My technical posts always take into account a broad user base...a 24 ft lb setting on 14 mm head bolts that are not associated with undercarriage and running gear, is totally sufficient in this case.

I also suggest to the reader that they on a monthly anniversary, re-torque the four bolts. At a 24 lb standard for the 14mm rating, they will be protected by always knowing the bolts are fully face seated, and no chance in reaching a torque setting that in the case of inexpensive or non-maintained torque wrenches (fatigued springs), they can cause any expensive damage and down time to to their ride. I can imagine that if that poster who has a stripped out bolt, for it to might have been that the tech using a fatigued and older torque wrench, DID in fact set it to 39 ft lbs, and did in fact over torque, with the result of a stripped out aluminum mating tap hole. Absolutely I can see this. I have had to fix with a Heli-Coil many such occurrences over the years, by my friends, who stripped out their Spark Plug holes, or on garden equipment, or small engine equipment. THAT is why on non critical running gear, or on any two mating surfaces that DOES NOT hold combustion pressure between the two parts, I derate (the factory torque setting by 30 percent, for a torque safety margin.) Since then, most of my mechanical friends, have no longer stripped out any two mating surfaces. There are a multitude of Back Yard Mechanics, that until this post, never knew that there WAS any re calibration maintenance required on any torque wrench...any, whether the rated for foot pounds, or inch pounds! That is my explanation. :)

Joe
 
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