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Discussion Starter #1
Just saw the press release and Time article on Harley's new electric bike, LiveWire. Has anybody else seen it? It's definitely a departure from their std look. It's more sporty than their Buell line ever was.

Not sure how successful it will be. Time suggests pricing might be about 20k, which given that their main demographic is more into cruisers, I'm not sure how many of the targeted young crowd will shell out for this. I mean, I don't ride motorcycles for environmental reasons, and even if I did, I'm already getting 50mpg on my gas bike. With a range of 100 miles and a 3 hour charge time, you can forget about long, winding rides with this. (Unless you stop at a pub for a few hours.) Heck, you could buy so many other fast sport bikes for half of that cost. It just seems way overpriced.

I like the design, don't get me wrong. But I had to laugh at their press release that boasted it sounds like a jet engine. Harley, that's not unique. That's what a sport bike sounds like.
 

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I think electric bikes will be a common site on the roadways in the next ten years. Right now it will be for the wealthy, as technology brings down the cost of batteries and range is increased, all of a sudden many urban/suburban dwellers will want one.

Do NOT mistake electric for being weak and slow, you will find, over time, no gas powered bike will be able to beat their acceleration and top end speed. I think to the point that maybe limiters might be needed.
Speed, acceleration and having the fastest bike in town, in its own right, will make them the bike to own, for the guy, who wants the fastest bike around.

Me, in my area, long distance riding, not ready to be tied down to a "cord" and by the time that cord can be cut, I might be to old to ride. *L*

That "jet engine" noise? When the guy riding that bike can beat every gas powered bike in his town, all of a sudden that jet engine noise will earn a LOT of respect.
 

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Yeah I guess if any mfr was going to be successful in the American e-bike market, it'd be Harley. They've got the brand value.

I knew electrics could be fast, but I didn't know they could out power a gas bike. Guess I'm thinking of my Prius versus a gas engine. Hahahaha. I know a guy who drives a Tesla. He loves the engine power. I think he said he got up into the 100s once? I've been dying to get a ride with him. He says it's a totally different experience.

I'd be curious to drive LiveWire for sure, but I don't have $20k to spend for a test product.
 

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.

I knew electrics could be fast, but I didn't know they could out power a gas bike......
I didnt know they were faster either, until I started reading some reviews. Here are some links I just looked up fast, NOT where I got my original info though. All very interesting, another interesting thing is I am not certain but think some do not have transmissions. Meaning the electric motor starts off at 0 RPM and spins as fast as necessary to achieve the speed it needs to.

http://www.brammo.com/empulse_specifications/

Or how about 500 HP and 0 to 60 in 1 Sec? 1/4 mile in 8 secs @ 174 MPH..
http://killacycleracing.com/about-us/killacycle/
 

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I'm a cruiser guy myself and I'm drawn into the look of bikes more, plus the sound, so the livewire look is kind of a turnoff to me because it's more of a sport/duo bike look. I agree in this news piece too, that the sound would be a turnoff as well, plus the price, which is why I don't have a Harley today. I still pick my Yammy 950 over the livewire. But you're right, maybe for the younger, gotta go fast crowd.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/24/5837642/riding-project-livewire-harley-davidson-first-electric-motorcycle



--KNic Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
2012 V-Star 950T
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yammy 950s for the win! Thanks for the link. I liked the video. It looks cool in action. The sound is like a jet engine, so they weren't really exaggerating.

Somewhat related: I get irked when I hear about Harley's "trademark" sound. While Harley may have started the rumble fashion, people have this misconception that 1) only Harleys sound like that and 2) Harleys naturally sound like that. I've never met a Harley rider who didn't swap out their pipes at some point, if not before they even left the dealer. In fact, I'm not actually sure I could pick out the sound of a stock Harley pipe...though many people confuse the sound of my bike for one.
 

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I'm glad that Harley is getting into the game. Not because I'm a Harley fan, but because it will take a top-tier manufacturer to get others into the game. What has been a niche product for a few years stands a much better chance of becoming main-stream now.
 

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Potato, Potato, Potato - they argue often imitated, never duplicated, no mater who's exhaust is on um.

Live wire definite must have for the Techno Geeks & Green Freaks. At least that's their target market and a business gamble. Remember the V-Rod? But you don't survive over a century without thinking outside the box now and then.
Find it hard to imagine the current loyal rider base crossing over - but the younger riders, even first timers and the European markets may very well be quite a bit different...
 

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What I'm guessing is the Harley crowd is aging and the motor company is looking for ways to keep humans on their product. Hell, you can get an HD Factory built trike by Harley these days. Roughly 30-35K for one. The electric scooter IMO is intended to get young folk on the marque....with hopes they become hooked and eventually pony up for a highly profitable heavyweight cruiser.

Just a guess there, I've been wrong before....more times than I care to admit.

EDIT: For you guys interested in the electric motorcycle, check out ZERO motorcycles. I went to a presentation on their product recently. They've got one helluva nice electric bike there. If I were a rich guy I'd certainly consider one for sure.
 

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The world changes and Harley just looking to keep their share of the pie just like ANY motorcycle company in the world (or any company for that matter) that wants to stay in business.

Its easy to trash or criticize a company that sells more 800 + cc bikes in the USA then ALL OTHER motorcycle companies combined. Think about that, more motorcycles then ALL other companies combined. There used to be and still is a time that Americans cheer any USA company with that success rate and devotion to a product.

Harley Davidson is the envy of every motorcycle company that sells motorcycles in the USA and why so many companies seek to copy their designs.
 

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Its easy to trash or criticize a company that sells more 800 + cc bikes in the USA then ALL OTHER motorcycle companies combined. Think about that, more motorcycles then ALL other companies combined.
prove it. you quote something like that and you should provide a reference for your data.
here's what i found:

"Domestic sales (factory shipments) (sic Japanese Motorcycle Production) for Calendar Year 2013 stood at 419,398 units..."

"Dealers sold 260,839 new Harley-Davidson motorcycles worldwide in 2013..."

that first number of only US sales by non-Harley makes is nearly DOUBLE what Harley sold WORLDWIDE last year. you appear to have your data backwards, wherever it came from.



http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

http://investor.harley-davidson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=87981&p=irol-newsArticle&id=1778785
 

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Here you go Bevo,

"Harley-Davidson does claim the market lead in such heavyweight motorcycles. With the Street 500 still on the way, all of the 35,730 motorcycles Harley-Davidson sold in the U.S. last year belong to that 601cc and larger category. By comparison, data from the Motorcycle Industry Council say Americans purchased 62,202 on-highway motorcycles displacing more than 601cc in 2013. By those figures, Harley-Davidson holds a strong 57.4% grip on that category."

Source- http://http://blog.motorcycle.com/2014/04/22/manufacturers/harley-davidson/top-selling-motorcycles-us-2013-harley-davidson-street-glide-special-breakout/
 

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The link to the chart you provided shows a total of 324,000 street bikes sold in the USA in 2013, thats all sizes not only over 600 CC and basically anything on the street.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

Pretty impressive that of those Harley sold 168,863 of them.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/252220/worldwide-motorcycle-retail-sales-of-harley-davidson/

Of course we can split hairs on numbers but it is a pretty safe bet that Harley sells more motorcycles over 605 CC on the USA then all others combined, not that I really care! *L*
Im just trying to give credit where credit is due.

Anyway my data is not backwards you have to careful look at street bikes over 600 cc and total sales of those bikes in the USA. Harley by itself sold almost 170,000 of them. I did mis quote and say over 800 cc but Harley beats them out starting at 600 cc, that just gives a bigger advantage to Harley not less.
 

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The link to the chart you provided shows a total of 324,000 street bikes sold in the USA in 2013, thats all sizes not only over 600 CC and basically anything on the street.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

Pretty impressive that of those Harley sold 168,863 of them.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/252220/worldwide-motorcycle-retail-sales-of-harley-davidson/


that's still comparing US figures against Harley's worldwide figures. i couldn't find a full year of Harley's US numbers, only the Q4 of 2013 which was 27,387 motorcycles sold. your reference quoted only a total of 35,000 Harleys sold in the US in 2013. so if Harley sold somewhere between 35,000 and 100,000 in the US in 2013 versus somewhere between 325,000 to 425,000 total US motorcycles sales, depending on whose reporting you use, that's still not giving Harley anywhere near a 50% market share.

i don't know how the Motorcycle Industry Council says only 62,202 total sales are considered "on-highway". the chart shows over 370,000 US sales of Jap bikes over 250cc, and i doubt the majority of those were considered off-road, or less than 600cc. and considering how the MIC only quoted 35,000 US Harley sales last year, i'd bet their other numbers are skewed as well.

but at least you quoted a reference this time. because a lot of people run off stats in forums with nothing to back it up. and we can agree that Harley sells a lot of bikes.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/568/17865/Motorcycle-Article/Harley-Davidson-4Q-Report---Sales-Up-in-2013.aspx
 

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Your incorrect Bevo,
Its a fact and right in the link I provided you, weather or not you can find it, doesnt change anything, the links are there AND if you do more research you will find my statement true.

Harley sold more motorcycles (over 605 cc) in the USA then all other manufactures in the USA combined. There is more information out there if you look, but I provided you with two sources already.

Harley sold 168.863 motorcycles in the USA in 2013, (here is the link I provided you http://www.statista.com/statistics/252220/worldwide-motorcycle-retail-sales-of-harley-davidson/ ) Im not sure what else you are looking for but if trying to disprove me you need to show the facts. Remember you are contesting what I wrote and I am not the one disputing this.
 

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You cut the paragraph short.

"Harley-Davidson does claim the market lead in such heavyweight motorcycles. With the Street 500 still on the way, all of the 35,730 motorcycles Harley-Davidson sold in the U.S. last year belong to that 601cc and larger category. By comparison, data from the Motorcycle Industry Council say Americans purchased 62,202 on-highway motorcycles displacing more than 601cc in 2013. By those figures, Harley-Davidson holds a strong 57.4% grip on that category."

All the information is out there and all of it clearly proves the statement. Harley sells more motorcycles in the 601+ cc range then ALL motorcycle manufactures combined.
 

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All the information is out there, just need to research it ... if your going to dispute it, you will never see anything but, Harley commands over a 50% share of the (601cc+) Heavy Weight Motorcycle Market in the USA.

No matter where you research you will come out with the same results.
Once this page opens, Above the words "Free Cash Flow" you will see "Download the Research Report" Click on it and open ...

http://www.trefis.com/company?hm=HOG.trefis#/HOG/n-0002?from=sankey

"Harley-Davidson is a manufacturer of heavyweight (601cc+) cruiser and
touring motorcycles. Harley-Davidson is an iconic brand that commands a
~55% share in heavyweight motorcycle sales in the U.S."
 
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