Yamaha Starbike Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Bike of the Month Challenge!

41 - 58 of 58 Posts

Registered
2001 Yamaha XVS650 Dragstar Classic in black
Joined
1,314 Posts
I think it is interesting that vstarhillbilly posted that from his manual, if for nothing else than bringing something new to the discussion. It even looks like Moly can/will be added to lithium for specific properties, which may be a cause for confusion on the part of the producer of the manual, see page four https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/tech_pdfs_new/Nov2015/Greases.pdf

The table also clearly state that 3% Moly is the only thing recommended for splines. Honda, though, recommend 60% Moly paste for their bikes. So clearly, even the various manufacturers cannot quite agree on what to use.

I have always used what is likely 3% Moly - seems to be an industry standard, but I have not seen factual data on the tube I use - and have never had any issues. Perhaps I have just been lucky, but according to the table in the link listed, this is what is best.

Here is a more accessible article on Moly How Does Moly Grease Work? - Nitro 9 | Industrial Lubricants and Additives

@vstarhillbilly - personally, I do not see the abbreviation used by bpounds as anything to be upset about, and especially not something that should instigate such a patronizing comment. Besides, cursing is a good way to expand your vocabulary 馃槈 Science Says That People Who Curse a Lot Have Better Vocabularies Than Those Who Don't
 

Banned
Joined
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
This is why I said experience,
A little story on just that. My first experience with a shaft drive was the 650 Classic. As you say no where does it mention greasing the shaft at the coupling to the differential. My bike had 74 k miles on it ( never serviced) and that coupling stripped, at a stoplight . That was when I found that coupling and learned how to set it up and grease it. it failed again 15k miles later, this time it was the splines going to the differential. Probably still damage from the first failure, so I replace the driveshaft and the coupler ( new) and a used differential from ebay, now it has 165k miles on it and the driveshaft and coupler look brand new ( just greasy) . I too wish they had put it in the book , it would have save me 2 failures and a bunch of money.
You can buy an OEM driveshaft and coupler from Partzilla, ebay is your friend when it comes to the differential ( they are real expensive)
As for me I prefer belt drive or chain drive, some love the shaft drive, I am not real crazy about it.
me either
 

Banned
Joined
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
I think it is interesting that vstarhillbilly posted that from his manual, if for nothing else than bringing something new to the discussion. It even looks like Moly can/will be added to lithium for specific properties, which may be a cause for confusion on the part of the producer of the manual, see page four https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/tech_pdfs_new/Nov2015/Greases.pdf

The table also clearly state that 3% Moly is the only thing recommended for splines. Honda, though, recommend 60% Moly paste for their bikes. So clearly, even the various manufacturers cannot quite agree on what to use.

I have always used what is likely 3% Moly - seems to be an industry standard, but I have not seen factual data on the tube I use - and have never had any issues. Perhaps I have just been lucky, but according to the table in the link listed, this is what is best.

Here is a more accessible article on Moly How Does Moly Grease Work? - Nitro 9 | Industrial Lubricants and Additives

@vstarhillbilly - personally, I do not see the abbreviation used by bpounds as anything to be upset about, and especially not something that should instigate such a patronizing comment. Besides, cursing is a good way to expand your vocabulary 馃槈 Science Says That People Who Curse a Lot Have Better Vocabularies Than Those Who Don't

i posted what i did because that is all i found about it..when talking about splines.and driveshafts. but i did however go back and look thru it again just to see if it mentioned moly use anywhere. and i found it in the preface under . greases/ lubricants it does state that in some circumstances they do recommend a molybdenum base or MOS. which i must have over looked it so it does in fact mention MOS ..now i just hafta go back and see where... an this manual was printed by haynes inc 2012.. but its a clymer ...and as ive said before.....someone asks do i have a manual to go by? i tellem nope. dont need one... all a manual is is someone elses opinion of how stuff goes together and comes apart ....if i watch close enough how i take it apart then i should be able to put it back together. .
 

Registered
2001 Yamaha XVS650 Dragstar Classic in black
Joined
1,314 Posts
As mentioned, I think it is good that you did. It also shows that Clymer, Haynes etc can be a good supplement to the FSM, but not a replacement. And that experience is something to value.
 

Banned
Joined
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
well everyone talks about moly 60. im not sure moly60 has 60% MOS honda m77 i read only has 20% moly. and to be truthful i read where the content that honda recommends was suppose to be 40% but they put out or endorse something that is not even up to their own standards. doesnt make any sense to me... but everyone has their own opinion of oreilleys and auto zone too and they re right beside each other also...
 

Registered
2001 Yamaha XVS650 Dragstar Classic in black
Joined
1,314 Posts
The Yamaha FSM says "M" which is 3% Moly grease. The Honda stuff is "MP", or paste, which is what they recommend. Personally, I have owned several Honda shaft driven bikes, but only learned about the paste a year ago on the Deauville forum. I have used Moly grease always on all my shafties, including Hondas, and never had any issues. Then again, I have probably not ridden them far enough for that to occur anyway.

I have earlier suggested that the issue with the 650 is the way the final drive attach to the swingarm, which can cause bending forces (often the wheel will go on an angle on the final drive). Whether this is true or not, I cannot tell, but Yamaha have built shaft drive bikes since 1976, and there have not been any uncommon spline issues before. And since the 650 use basically the same parts, it is likely that neither lube type nor material is to blame, so logic dictates (to me) that it has to do with the particular design of the V-Star 650.

The only brand that has suffered a number of spline failures that I am aware of, is Kawasaki. Particularly with their Vulcan series, with the 750 being the worst offender. And those issues again seems to be the result of the splines being dry from the factory. In general, though, from what I can see splines are typically ignored and rarely seems to fail.
 

Registered
Joined
1,100 Posts
well everyone talks about moly 60. im not sure moly60 has 60%
from a Honda Marine website....
107196


from a lubrication specialist website...
107197


While I have read many threads of spline failures from lack of grease, loss of grease or the wrong grease, I have never read of one involving 60%+ moly.
Comparing cars and trucks to the 650 is an apples ' n oranges comparison. Cars and trucks with drive shafts have universal joints at both ends. As the 650 shock & springloaded swingarm moves up and down with its lone universal joint, the driveshaft has to constantly shorten and lengthen to accomodate the travel. That movement happens in the coupling. The sliding action creates friction, friction creates heat, heat raises temperature and temp impacts grease life & performance. Whether the fault is grease related or alignment, you cant deny the many failures, and I want the peace of mind knowing that there is a good high temp grease protecting the application. Even when the paste dries out, the moly is acting like a dry lubricant.
I paid $34 for 8 oz. of LB8012 and there is probably enough to last 6 tire changes or about 50000 miles. For me, that amounts to about $6 every 2-3 yrs at tire replacement and I will gladly sacrifice one cup of Starbucks over that time rather than skimp on grease. A new final drive and tow job would cost a whole lot more.... just my opinion. Good luck... hope your choice works out.
 

Banned
Joined
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #48 ·
thanks for posting that. where did you order that from? oh ok the LB8012 yes thats what im gonna get.. but havin carb issues right now. gas leaking between carbs hose. ugh thanks for the info.
 

Registered
2001 Yamaha XVS650 Dragstar Classic in black
Joined
1,314 Posts
Now things are really getting interesting Using copper grease instead of moly on final drive?

From the CX forum:
Don't worry about Moly 60. Use what the FSM calls for.

P. 204 of the GL500/650 FSM says "Lubricate the splines of the final driven flange and the O-ring with lithium-based MULTIPURPOSE NLGI No. 2 (molybdenum disulfide additive) GREASE"

The capitals are Honda's. It looks to me like they were specifically stressing "multipurpose" and "grease" in order to tell us that we should not use moly 60 (which is technically a paste anyway and really intended as assembly lube for engine parts).

As you can see from the MSDS (link above), Moly 60 is NOT 60% molybdenum disulphide. It is also not specified anywhere in any of the manuals.

I asked about this on Naked GoldWings some time ago. Read through this thread. Make sure you watch the video Dan Filipi posted. Dan has been on NGW for many years and is known to post reliable information. Whiskerfish is one of the most knowledgeable people on NGW.

The "requirement" for Moly 60 on the splines of Honda shaft drives is another internet myth. I suspect that it that was started because someone in the sales department decided to mention on the product label that it could be used on splines. Always remember that product labels are written by the sales department but manuals are written by the engineering department. I don't know about you but I know which of those I would believe. Every time.

BTW, My GoldWing's splines have never seen Moly 60 (at least in the 20 years/well over 100,000 Km I have had it) and the last time I had the back wheel off its splines still looked like new.
 

Registered
2008 YAMAHA XVS650 V-STAR 650
Joined
46 Posts
thanks for posting that. where did you order that from? oh ok the LB8012 yes thats what im gonna get.. but havin carb issues right now. gas leaking between carbs hose. ugh thanks for the info.
I had the same issue on my 2008 650 - @lesblank or someone helped me diagnose the floats weren鈥檛 鈥渂ouncing鈥 and I needed to rebuild the carbs.
The floats weren鈥檛 properly sealing so the fuel pump would overflow the carbs causing gas to drain out the hose between the carbs.

I have a thread here and there鈥檚 references on YouTube.

-Eric
 

Banned
Joined
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I had the same issue on my 2008 650 - @lesblank or someone helped me diagnose the floats weren鈥檛 鈥渂ouncing鈥 and I needed to rebuild the carbs.
The floats weren鈥檛 properly sealing so the fuel pump would overflow the carbs causing gas to drain out the hose between the carbs.

I have a thread here and there鈥檚 references on YouTube.

-Eric

i just cleaned the carbs and replaced all new parts inside bowls except floats.....my pblm i think is i had an o ring that was bad on the pc inside the coupler. it has 4 orings 2 in each side. 1 was broke...i replaced all 4
hopefullythat took care if it.
 

Registered
Joined
18 Posts
hello fellas
i have a question. i am thinking about pulling my drive shaft andbgreasing the splines. soin as i recv a repair manual on the way. my question is this.
i went to oreillys and got some
master pro super lithium E P MOLY GREASE
can i use this on my splines? i read somewhere about moly paste. they said its the same thing? or equal to....but i dont know. if it is or not it doesnt tell how much moly is has in it. according to google it says 3% is that enough? or should i return it and find the moly paste?
I use Lucas 'red and tacky" on all splines and on the mating gear between the hub and the wheel. I re-grease whenever I replace the rear tire.
 

Registered
Joined
1,100 Posts
indeed they are and confusing! Makes me wonder if weight % and volume % are mistakenly being used interchangeably. I have always said, if you want to mislead and lie, use percentages. Easy to understand why there may be so much misinfo on the topic.
Time to get Fortnine on the case to separate the myth from the mystery.

image grab off internet....

107208
 

Registered
2001 Yamaha XVS650 Dragstar Classic in black
Joined
1,314 Posts
So there goes the myth about the myth :unsure: Yes, we need Fortnite to sort this out.Or Project Farm.
 

Registered
2001 Yamaha XVS650 Dragstar Classic in black
Joined
1,314 Posts
Unfortunately, I have deleted the pictures of how the splines on my bike were lubed from new, but it had a color more like wet rust, as in dark brownish.

This is a picture of the splines after cleaning, sorry about the lack of focus


Greased and ready to be fitted. I probably use too much grease, especially since the female splines had also been greased



And this is how the little spring inside was greased from the factory - doubt there is any moly there
 

Registered
2008 YAMAHA XVS650 V-STAR 650
Joined
46 Posts
Received today - $10.02 off Amazon.

-Eric

107238

107239

107240
 
  • Like
Reactions: bpounds

Super Moderator "Loose Nut" - Houston, Texas
2001 Vstar 1100 Classic (sold), 2006 HD Electra Glide Ultra Classic
Joined
11,399 Posts
Good buy!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Llebcire
41 - 58 of 58 Posts
Top