Yamaha Starbike Forum banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
i am coming up on my first oil and filter change. i have decided on using 5w-40 rotella t synthetic. and changing it every 3000 miles. any one ever had problems with this oil? i have used it in other v-twins with no problems. price is no object. i would change every 1000 mile if i thought it was necessary. i used mobil1 10w -30 in my speedstar warrior with no problems. the engine looked like new when i tore it down to install the patrick racing pistons and speed star cams.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,741 Posts
Oh no! One of the most dangerous threads of all: a dreaded "oil" thread!!:eek::eek::eek:



Rotella is an excellent oil and I have used it in many watercooled bikes without any problem.

In an aircooled engine, I prefer to have 50W for the hot viscosity. As Rotella doesn't market a dual viscosity 50W, I run mine on Valvoline 20W50 M/C oil, change oil and filter every 3000 miles.

Whatever you and anyone else wants to do is purely between you, them, and the piston rings.:)

Regards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Extra Virgin Olive Oil or 100% Canola oil.......:eek:

ohhh! for the bike, then yes, I agree with Springer ! lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
most people like to use one of the 20w50 motorcycle lubes. If you are going to change every 3000 miles then it doesn't have to be a synthetic. Your choice really. I use Brad Penn 20w50 racing oil in my strat because it has more ZDDP in it and I feel it helps it to shift better. Engine runs smoother also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
Zddp?

Is ZDDP one of the friction reducers we are not suposed to use in our motorcycles due to the wet clutch?

A few years back I used Lucas oil treatment for a one oil change. I believe it has ZDDP. My bike did shift easer. I stopped using it when I started reading about not using oil with friction reducers.

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
HTML:
Is ZDDP one of the friction reducers we are not suposed to use in our motorcycles due to the wet clutch? 

A few years back I used Lucas oil treatment for a one oil change. I believe it has ZDDP. My bike did shift easer. I stopped using it when I started reading about not using oil with friction reducers.
ZDDP is the old school anti-wear package that is still in all oils only in reduced quantities. Its been reduced because it is suppose to be bad for catalytic converters. We don't need to worry about that, since motorcycle oils have it already. It will not hurt our wet clutch.
The friction reducer you need to avoid is molybdemum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,452 Posts
Very interesting that's good info guys.I like threads like this.Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
Don't know about Z's D's and P's, but they tell me to look at the bottle, if it say's "energy conserving" it becomes a no no for wet clutch applications;) Ride safe.
(at least that's what the big boys say:D)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
a little perspective on friction modifiers, or our bitter enemy moledenum disulfide. this friction modifier is so slick and good that it reduces friction to the extent that it equals less power loss and less wear on engine components and improved gas mileage. many drag bikes run run 5w20 mobil1 because it gives them a slight hp. edge. as far as clutch slippage goes i have run 10w-30 mobil1 in most of my street bikes for years including my 08 gold wing. i have never ever had a clutch slippage problem. i ran it in my race prepped zx-14. the clutch slippage thing is blown way out of proportion. i will say that i ride conservatively on the street. zddp is zinc and phosphorus. it is the last resort barrier before you reach metal to metal contact. it has been around as long as i have. zddp is what makes gear lube smell like a rotten fart. on my liner i have decided to steer clear of moly cuz this thing produces so much torque and has such heavy fly wheel action on the crank that it could easily cook a clutch without friction modifiers. as far as thick oil goes, i don't believe in it in modern bike motors. being a machinist i have alot of experience with bearing clearance and lubrication. these new japanese engines run very close and precision tolerance on the bearing clearances. they have like .0015 to . 0025 clearance. it takes a very low vicosity oil to pass through that space and hold a lubrication barrier to prevent metal to metal contact. to high of a viscosity will starve the bearing of it's life blood, OIL. factories are not always right. humans work there and make decisions on what seems right to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
a little perspective on friction modifiers, or our bitter enemy moledenum disulfide. this friction modifier is so slick and good that it reduces friction to the extent that it equals less power loss and less wear on engine components and improved gas mileage. many drag bikes run run 5w20 mobil1 because it gives them a slight hp. edge. as far as clutch slippage goes i have run 10w-30 mobil1 in most of my street bikes for years including my 08 gold wing. i have never ever had a clutch slippage problem. i ran it in my race prepped zx-14. the clutch slippage thing is blown way out of proportion. i will say that i ride conservatively on the street. zddp is zinc and phosphorus. it is the last resort barrier before you reach metal to metal contact. it has been around as long as i have. zddp is what makes gear lube smell like a rotten fart. on my liner i have decided to steer clear of moly cuz this thing produces so much torque and has such heavy fly wheel action on the crank that it could easily cook a clutch without friction modifiers. as far as thick oil goes, i don't believe in it in modern bike motors. being a machinist i have alot of experience with bearing clearance and lubrication. these new japanese engines run very close and precision tolerance on the bearing clearances. they have like .0015 to . 0025 clearance. it takes a very low vicosity oil to pass through that space and hold a lubrication barrier to prevent metal to metal contact. to high of a viscosity will starve the bearing of it's life blood, OIL. factories are not always right. humans work there and make decisions on what seems right to them.
Yamaha is recommending a 20w50 oil for the stratoliners now. Of course, you being a machinist I'm sure you have a good handle on flow rate of oils. Just another note, I was looking at a UOA on Brad Penn 20w50 with a 5000 mile OCI and it did thicken up some. That's a good reason to change it at 3000 miles. I've used both rotella 15w40 and amsoil 10w40 in my bike so far and feel that the rotella is better ( less noise ) than amsoil. I like the Brad Penn the best because the bike shift far better with it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,741 Posts
There's no comparison between the tolerances of liquid cooled engines and air cooled engines. Liquid cooled engines like Honda's maintain operating temperatures within a relatively narrow band; air cooled engines have far wider operating temperature spectrum with corresponding wider changes in operating tolerances. That's why manufacturers of air cooled engines (motorcycles, aircraft, etc.) go with heavier hot viscosity oil recommendations. There's plenty of room in air cooled engine tolerances for the heavier oils to do their work.

And I can't believe I got sucked into yet another oil thread...:rolleyes:

Use what you want. It's your bike, your money.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,088 Posts


Although, oil weight really depends on a few other factors:
1. quiet or loud exhauset
2. car tire or motorcycle tire on the back
3. half or full or no helemet worn
4. ride alone or in a group
5. the bike has or does not have a gremlin bell
6. bike color
7. dino, full synthetic or blend
8. Pure gasoline or E10

:D:D:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
And I can't believe I got sucked into yet another oil thread...:rolleyes:

.
I call it the "Jerry Springer" syndrome,,, Absolute bonafide waste of time, but we still have the unexplainable urge to 'indulge',,, :eek:

I'm as guilty as the next one here,,,

Strato,,, you forgot ETHANOL! :D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,088 Posts
That's where you're wong. There has been $millions spent in grant money and research to ultimately prove that the price of tea in China has no bearing or infuluence in anything. (And "wong" is exactly how I wanted to spell it) :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
a little perspective on friction modifiers, or our bitter enemy moledenum disulfide. this friction modifier is so slick and good that it reduces friction to the extent that it equals less power loss and less wear on engine components and improved gas mileage. many drag bikes run run 5w20 mobil1 because it gives them a slight hp. edge. as far as clutch slippage goes i have run 10w-30 mobil1 in most of my street bikes for years including my 08 gold wing. i have never ever had a clutch slippage problem. i ran it in my race prepped zx-14. the clutch slippage thing is blown way out of proportion. i will say that i ride conservatively on the street. zddp is zinc and phosphorus. it is the last resort barrier before you reach metal to metal contact. it has been around as long as i have. zddp is what makes gear lube smell like a rotten fart. on my liner i have decided to steer clear of moly cuz this thing produces so much torque and has such heavy fly wheel action on the crank that it could easily cook a clutch without friction modifiers. as far as thick oil goes, i don't believe in it in modern bike motors. being a machinist i have alot of experience with bearing clearance and lubrication. these new japanese engines run very close and precision tolerance on the bearing clearances. they have like .0015 to . 0025 clearance. it takes a very low vicosity oil to pass through that space and hold a lubrication barrier to prevent metal to metal contact. to high of a viscosity will starve the bearing of it's life blood, OIL. factories are not always right. humans work there and make decisions on what seems right to them.

There is something I'd like to say about molybdemum that someone my be interested in. When I was looking around for oils for my bike I was thinking about giving Sheaffers #707 a try. The TDS looked good and the oil is JASO-MA certified. This is a strong 20w50 semi-synthetic oil with a lot of zinc and phosphorus, but it also has 200-300 ppm of molybdemum in it. So, I called customer service at Sheaffers and asked if this would be okay to use in my bike, it was JASO-MA certified after all. They asked about the strat's clutch and how it was made. I found out that it is metal and fiber plates alternating until complete. They told me that the fiber was good with molybdemum but that the pores in the metal plates would fill up and become smooth enough to slip. You might be fine using an oil with less than 100 ppm of moly but you'd be wise to use an oil that doesn't use molybdemum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
845 Posts
AS far as oil weight -
Choose the weight that your engine manufacture suggests and dont give it to much more thought. Give more thought to a quality oil in the suggested weight.
As a rule MOST air cooled suggest a 20-50
Most liquid cooled a 10 or 20 - 40.
Being I have liquid cooled my choice is simple.
My favorate - Delo 400LE 15/40, close runner up is Rotella 15/40 but have also used Mobil and Vavoline 15/40
They are all diesel oils, diesel oils are the serious oil, made much tougher then auto oil to stand up the the demanding high compression, high heat generated by the world largest diesel engines. Its a great choice for your bike, even your car if the viscosity is in the range.
For the record the Rotella also carries the MA rating for your motorcycle if what I am saying here doesnt sound right to to you! :eek:)
I only use dino oils but only because I change my oil and filter so often, at least three times a year or better said around every 1,500 miles or less.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top